Hazbin Hotel Criticism - Tumblr Posts
Charlie Morningstar is probably one of the worst written characters I’ve seen in the series.
(This one’s gonna be a long one…)
Ok…. So I watched all six episodes and to be honest I’m pretty much pissed off by this character specifically. This might be more of a rant rather than a critique, so I do understand that not everything I say in this will end up being as constructive exactly but I genuinely need to get this off my chest, especially since she is a character I’ve specifically and recently been hyper fixating on before the show released…
(Side note: I realized the post was very long so, to have it be easier to read I added titles for each section! Hope this helps)
!!WARNING FOR SPOILERS FOR THE SERIES BTW!!
> Charlie lacks the qualities of being a main character.
Now besides the piss poor excuse of an introduction for her (and the rest of the cast) in the main series, I honestly question why exactly Charlie specifically is the “protagonist” in the first place (and I say protagonist with the biggest of quotes here, you’ll see why).
In the first episode of the series “overture”, we don’t really see much of her character, most of the time we’re shown screen time of Vicky (a nickname I made for v*ggie since I’m not gonna call her by her genitalia thank you) trying to make an ad for the hotel and even when we do get the screen time of her, she’s barely doing anything other than hearing viv’s self insert- I mean- Adam just go on and on about whatever he’s talking about.
And when Charlie does go on to explain her plan to redeem sinners she’s just interrupted and then stands there when they start singing hell is forever, she doesn’t “go off” like the hazbin Twitter says, she just stands there and then tries to say something only to get interrupted again and again and then gets pushed out of the meeting room before going back to the hotel to see it’s spread across in the news that the next extermination happens in 6 months.
Now although one might argue “Well didn’t Charlie at one point said in the show that giving orders is so mean?” Well yes but again, Charlie is literally the princess of pride ring, you would think that since her parents are literally rulers of pride, they would’ve probably teach her how to stand on her two feat, especially if your RUNNING A HOTEL. And the thing is, she has stood up and did so in episode 6 and the goddamn pilot (which is at this point is probably canon due to Charlie calling it the hazbin hotel instead of happy hotel), even going as far as to fight Katie Killjoy because she thought it was stupid.
Not only that but the episodes after overture, her screen time lessens until somewhat in 5 and 6. She doesn’t really appear that much in the between these episodes to the point where she feels like a supporting character rather than a protagonist. And when she does get screen time, she’s either forgettable at best and infuriating at worst.
> Charlie’s character is poorly written and just dumb.
In the episodes past overture, she’s literally rock solid stupid that I literally screamed in real life multiple times “you’re a fucking idiot” because of how frustrated I was from what she was doing, In episode 2 she literally trusted sir pentious to go to her hotel even though he almost destroyed her place and in episode 6 thought it was a hunky dory idea to let a person who literally exploded buildings to take charge of giving her employees a “good time”. Yes it could be played off as her being naive but if she’s that naive of a person then maybe she shouldn’t be a boss of a hotel to rehabilitate sinners.
Heck, in episode 4, Charlie gets pissed off and turns into her demon form because val literally started hurting Angel when he followed him into the room (and rightfully so) but when angel tells her to leave and drags her out of the studio, she’s just in her normal form and fucks off??? Reminder she’s literally the princess of hell! She could beat the shit out of val if she wants to, why did she just fucked off after angel had her leave?
“But Kat, what if something bad happens to angel if valentino dies?” Like what? If it was explained that if an overlord dies then the sinners that made a deal with them die too or something like that then yeah, that would make sense but we don’t know that whether or not that’s the case, if anything angel could be just fine after Valentino dies but we don’t know that.
And even when Charlie had the opportunity to go out there and apologize to him herself after he stormed out of the hotel, she and Vicky just send Husk to do it. And I have to ask, WHY? HUSK didn’t know what was happening to Angel earlier. HUSK wasn’t at the porn studio that Angel was working at. CHARLIE WAS….
“Well Kat, what if Charlie was scared about making things worse?” Fair enough, but again sending Husk is a stupid idea, I feel like it would’ve AT LEAST made sense if she sent Vicky out there. Because Charlie didn’t know if husk could fight (if you could even call it that, all he did was throw cards at people), BUT SHE KNEW VICKY COULD THOUGH. But nah we gotta do it for the ship right?
And then Charlie had the gull to be crying that angel forgave her after she fucked up, like shut the fuck up… it’s like if viv looked at a bunch of chars that had the optimistic care-free ‘ish personality and thought that meant making her as pathetic as a baby crying that they didn’t get a lollipop from their mommy.
Like I’m gonna be honest with you, it’s literally gone to a point where I think Orel Puppington (aka the 11 yo Christian kid who worships Jesus and gets harmful lessons from other Christians) makes a better Charlie Morningstar than the Charlie Morningstar herself!
And that thought is justified when he tried to go help people in Sinville, “Kat he ended up turning into a pimp at the end of the episode” yeah but AT LEAST HE TRIED TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING! Which leads me to another question….
> How is Charlie gonna redeem sinners exactly???
Like honestly, I’m serous with this one. How is Charlie gonna redeem these guys?
I ask this because in the series, she barely does ANYTHING to help these guys, she and the rest of the characters just sit around and then do an activity that is the equivalent of something you would do in kindergarten except it’s with ADULTS.
I don’t know about you but If your idea of helping people is doing just that and nothing else, then the only thing the people around you are gonna get is them being annoyed at first and eventually walking out with thinking your not helping them but rather just treating them like a baby who doesn’t know anything, and the only thing your gonna get personally is nothing because you did dick all.
Like other than that she pretty much just whines about sinners not going to her hotel and oh gee I wonder why, it’s not like your not doing anything to help these sinners not committing sins anymore, oh definitely not, your absolutely being helpful.
“Oh but Kat! Charlie was born in hell, how can she know how to help people? She’s not from the human world so, she wouldn’t exactly know how to help these people!” I would tell you to look at the world building for the series and it’s spin off but that’s a whole other can of beans that I don’t wanna cover today and this is already getting to long, so y’know what? We’ll go with that.
If Charlie didn’t know how to help people and was trying to figure out what she can do to help sinners get better, then why didn’t she just ask her employees for suggestions? Y’know, the other sinners who were from the human world and had experiences while they were alive and such?
Yeah, I get that not all of their advice would be exactly good or healthy (since they’re sinners who’ve done many bad things after all) BUT ITS AT LEAST SOMETHING FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!
She literally does nothing, she just expects you to immediately get better after some improvisations or whatever other activities she does and once you’ve done one nice thing then boom you’re close to redemption.
> Conclusion.
Charlie Morningstar is (like I said in the beginning) probably one of the worst characters in the hazbin hotel series, she at best a stereotype of the “everything is sunshines and rainbows” character tropes and at worst is a pathetic excuse of a main character and is nothing but a rotten shell of her character from the pilot.
I would go on about how her design’s also bad but I’m sure millions of people have already said the same issues and I’ve already posted my redesign of her before the show dropped.
I might plan on posting a rewrite of her or maybe explain my problems with another character or episode but I don’t know.
But until then, I’ll see y’all later!
Literally??? Like there's so much more that could've been done with the idea and it had the chance to be SO interesting but instead every character just kind of feels,,, the same??
It makes me sad because the show had SO MUCH potential but.... yeah I don't think I even need to say it
What's the point of having characters from different time periods when they behave and swear like they're edgy american teens?
Woo! V (not calling her by her original name) redesign, also some thoughts about her in the main series and in my rewrite (I’ll post about it at some point).
So I don’t really like her in the main series, she’s fine but her whole personality revolving around Charlie is…weird. It feels codependent and really one-sided? There isn’t much that I can about her as a character because her character is “Charlie’s girlfriend.” I preferred her in the pilot, as much her writing wasn’t perfect. And the reveal of her being an angel meant fucking nothing. The drama between her and Charlie lasted for one episode and then in one episode she was joking about being an angel.
In my rewrite she was a Salvadoran weapons dealers, she died in 2011 at like…25-29. Choose which one you the best. She got send to hell for killing a client out of rage then killing herself out of guilt. Very upbeat I’m aware. She met Charlie while roaming the streets of hell right after an extermination searching for angelic weapons, she and Carmilla were enemies at some point but then just became rivals because V did not have NEARLY as much power as Carmilla (she was in the industry for about…10 years? Give or take a couple years) . V was the main reason she started the hotel, lost sinners who fucked but in the end didn’t deserve eternal damnation. She isn’t FULLY invested in the idea of redemption but she doesn’t quite think it’s impossible. Also she can’t fly very well by the way. She’s trying is basically the story of her life in both the real world and in hell. She’s a moth because they represent change! Also because the idea of her being weirdly short is kinda funny to me. She can pick up Charlie in one hand.
This essay is 100% spot on.
When you forget there’s sin in Seven Deadly Sins
[I guess this could be treated as part two of my rant about Hell’s ruling class.]
The Seven Sins are the embodiment of their vice, in a modern setting, they will probably be seeking to indulge in harmful activities themselves since they are immortal and can’t face consequences and influence others into falling into dangerous lifestyles. I can even see a scenario when each of them tries to make propaganda through the internet with platforms like Instagram or TikTok, like Beelzebub promoting Bezzle Juice except that it’s purposely made to be extremely addictive and one shot of it gets you hooked forever.
We’re gonna start with Lucifer, the only angel of the Seven. He’s a dreamer quirky cutie patootie with dePwezIOn that just wanted to give humanity Fwee Wil🥺.
What were Lucifer’s plans/dreams for humankind in the first place? He was dismissed as a troublemaker, okay…? What portrayed him as such? He’s a socially awkward silly guy but honestly, that’s all there is to his character. But I won’t get too deep with these questions maybe we’ll get more answers in Hazbin. However, what I can ask is…
How did Lucifer manage to find himself so close to The Garden of Eden? If I’m making something important I ain’t letting the petulant kid get close to it because… you know he might ruin it.
Elder or not Lucifer is still a Seraphim, did he not know that giving Free Will to humans would mess up everything? Even if HE didn't know what about the others? Were the angels even aware of Evil as a whole? If yes, why didn't they warn Lucifer before giving him access to Eden? Like “Hey dude the glowing red Tree in the middle of the Garden is bad news don’t let the mortals near it.” was it that hard?
Can someone explain to me how is this the embodiment of Pride? I personally don't see anything prideful in his attitude at all. Pride is the belief that you don’t need God in your spiritual journey, in a worst-case scenario, you think yourself above him. In the Bible, Lucifer was too Proud to bow before mankind and tried to overthrow God which led to his banishment. But since Viv totally changed the story and forgot to add the Pride elements, there’s nothing justifying Lucifer’s title as Pride incarnate.
TW: Mention of sexual assault/rape and a brief mention of other sexual practices.
Following with Asmodeus, why is he like this? Don't get me wrong, I can understand why he isn't a fan of rape as a whole, rape is rarely, dare I say never, about sexual craving, it’s about control. Val doesn't rape Angel Dust, and his employees because he feels needy, he assaults them because he knows that’ll break them psychologically and physically which makes them vulnerable to manipulation. Sexual assault as a whole is never about lust.
It makes sense if we drop out of the fact that Lust isn’t just physical but religiously speaking just an intense craving for something, like power or control. Viv took the easy way and reduced it to a physical craving so Asmodeus could be anti-rape I can’t blame her for that, it’s her ✨interpretation.✨
So Asmodeus is Pro Concent and it kinda makes sense. Since he’s the Prince of Lust, he technically should have influence over the culture in the Lust Ring and other species like Succubus should at least be weirded out by innuendo of non-consensual sex.
Well, shit.
“OooOoooOOH But Tiz is Not Rape!”
Compare the succubus’ abilities to aphrodisiacs and it all makes sense. Increasing someone’s libido without their consent alone is sexual misconduct proceeding to have sex with them later is rape. And it’s not the only instance of succubus assaulting people.
[Context: Ep3 S1, Verosika’s crew basically made condescending comments on how Moxie was cute and how they wanted to kiss him despite his discomfort and the fact that he mentioned being married. They still eventually kissed him by force and it was treated as a joke. “I care about male victims.” Sure we believe you.]
So Asmodeus is a hypocrite for giving succubus and incubus a way to get to Earth while knowing they are raping as many humans as possible.
“D3mOn @re BAAAAAAD Pweple So |t makse sense.☝️🤓”
I know, I wouldn’t complain that much if Asmodeus wasn’t painted as this cutie patootie lovely doe who is so in love with his lovely cute good boy partner.
Talking about partners, why does the Prince, no… why does LUST INCARNATE have ONE partner? The dude’s sex drive should be higher than the Olympus Mons and you’re telling me he doesn’t have a harem at disposition and he’s FAITHFUL?!! No free relationship, no hookups, no polyamorous relationship, and no mention of orgies he organizes to test the efficiency of his toys! Hell, we’re talking about Lust shouldn’t he be more inclined to have exhibitionist behavior (In recent episodes Lust’s citizens were desensitized about voyeurism so showing a bit of skin shouldn't be a problem)? Or, I don’t know, the ability to change his appearance and sex to appeal to a larger audience. Maybe the smoke secreted by his fire can serve as an aphrodisiac he only uses to put his partners in the mood (With their consent if she’s so attached to that idea.)
Viv, with two shows whose humor is mostly based on sex you certainly lack representations in terms of positive sexual activities, every time sex is mentioned in both of her projects it’s either a joke or diabolized. I’ve seen teens on Wattpad and AO3 writing foul smut with sexual practice so taboo it’ll make you gasp out loud! Take an example! (This was obliviously a joke but seriously, smut’s writers scare me with their tags.)
This leads us to Beelzebub, she’s supposed to be…. an animal tamer? She did not give off this vibe at all, she’s a party girl at best, stop saying things on Twitter Viv, and show it in your shows!
Is there a reason for her to be so nice? What do you mean you don’t want Bliztø to lose himself in alcohol and sex, you’re all about overindulgence. If anything she should actively invite people who are mentally distressed as they’ll be more willing to drink excessively in a “forget my life’s issues” type of way. This could also explain why so many people in her parties are minorities, Hellhounds and Imps are treated like shit by Hell’s society so being invited to one of Queen Bee’s parties will be a great honor and a way for them to forget how difficult their life is.
“E3RmS Actoualli, Bee ite the Viiiibe! S0 ze kant let Peple b3 s@d or ze will be sad too. ☝️🤓”
Ah… okay, still don't explain why she can’t be a bitch about it. Since she “eats the vibe” and feels for her people she could be affected by Blizt's destructive behavior and be absolutely furious someone is ruining her parties for her! Then she could have gotten to Loona and been like “Look your dad doesn't have the vibe I’m looking for so get him out unless you wanna learn what happen to party pooper.” implying that she will most likely kill him (or eat him) and that this isn't the first time she offed someone for that. But I guess we can make another EMBODIMENT OF SINS a decent girl, it’s Viv ✨interpretation.✨
Going forward with Mammon, Viv humanized the Sins mentioned up there, so you would think Mammon would also get the humanization treatment?
“T3re Is NOO g0od s|de to GrEed!!!!! 😡”
Okay.
What’s Greed, it’s a selfish desire for more than what you already have (money, fame, etc...) The mention of selfishness doesn’t give Greed a positive connotation but you forgot…. This is Viv ✨interpretation✨ she reduced Lust to craving sexual intimacy just so she could make Asmodeus Pro Concent. Beelzebub doesn't need food she eats the Viiiiibe so she can’t let people self-destruct! Here she’ll politely ask you to go away because she caaaaaares. And Lucifer isn’t Prideful at all.
She removed part of the definition of each Sins so she could make them good people and you’re telling me that she couldn't do the same for Mammon?!
“But H0w can ze posibli m@ke Greed Pozitif?”
If you remove the selfish aspect, Greed is wanting something more. There’s nothing wrong with that, like wanting more recognition, and more money when you’re poor. Mammon could have been this guy who worked himself at the top and his money could have been the fruit of his hard work.
So why, of all the Sins that got turned down was Greed the only one who got the “I’m pure Evil” treatment?
The Seven Deadly Sins aren't supposed to be decent beings. They represent the worst of what humanity can do and they are embodied by equally bad entities. With a setup as shitty as the Hellaverse, where there are little to no rules, slavery, classism, and drugs available everywhere I was expecting them to be a tad bit vicious, purposely making the life of everyone worse for their benefit. Mammon could have been the reason for this capitalist society as it’s the perfect environment to develop other sins and his. Yet, Beelzebub is friendly to the Hellhounds while letting them be treated like lesser than how we treat dogs. There’s even rehabs in Hell, Verosika and Barbie were in the same one.
Asmodeus will sue you if you rape someone unless you’re a succubus. Ironically he said that he’s against love potions when that’s literally what the succubus do with their abilities, get you in the mood without you knowing.
Lucifer is the number one silly guy and he even has an attraction parc for others to have fun.
I know it’s Viv ✨ interpretation✨ but you have to make it make sense. You can’t have demons this high-ranked being nice portray them as good people in the narrative when they are responsible for Hell being so unfair to the lower class.
As for the other sins…
Traditionally speaking Wrath isn't just unjustified violence but hatred and a desire for revenge. I think that’s one of the main reasons Satan and Lucifer are treated as the same person as Lucifer is both prideful, hates God, and seeks revenge. I don't see how Viv’s Satan could be vengeful as they were no war with Heaven to begin with.
Envy isn’t wanting something that someone else has (it’s jealousy), it’s hating someone because they have something that you don’t. Which often results in trying to make the life of this person worse but that’s another thing. I didn't see anything about Sloth and judging by the Sloth Ring, Beelphagor is going to be medical-themed, we know he makes drugs and has a brand of anti-depressant named “Happy Pills.” (Nothing to do with the circus aesthetic she was going for.)
I don’t know if Viv really has a good grasp of what these Sin are traditionally as she claims but we have to see in future episodes. My guess is no.
The only time I can consider Angel Dust attractive is when he is in his drag outfits. Like seriously, in his old drag design Angel Dust not only looked actually gorgeous but someone you would want to bang as well but now...nothing about this thin-sticked, pink all over, barely there bust, supposed "spider-boy" is appealing at all. Glitz, Glam, Verosika, and Paimon practically shit on Angel Dust in the Atrractiveness Department.
haha so funny ignore how this literal abuse.
Angel Dust: I drink and do drugs because maybe if I ruin myself enough, I won't be Val's favorite toy anymore!
Husk: You're a loser, baby! (...) You're a fucked up little whiny bitch!
screw it, here’s a charlie morningstar redesign
side by side comparison:
screw it here’s ANOTHER hazbin redesign. i made vaggie a stained-glass moth (haha get it)
side by side comparison
screw it, niffty redesign, as requested by @dnpanimationstudioclone!
side-by-side comparison:
a lineup of all my redesigns so far, please send requests for who I should draw next!
”Y’all better normalize having Valentino as a comfort character” nah, how about we normalize putting him through various historical torture methods
Bro Pinterest is better than Twitter…most people are Stolitz Stans on there….it actually upsets me how THOUSANDS of people love this abusive ship…
More of Pinterest speaking the truth about HB and HH
Here are some threads after the Just Stop debate of someone questioning Viv on why she doesn’t respond to valid criticism received (rather than just the “bad faith” ones) and call out her passive aggressive antics.
It’s just entertaining at this point 🍿
So i just went onto tiktok for the first time (didnt have the app)
The amount of things i see about CHILDREN not teens, going to a convention, is fucking insane. I saw teachers or aids talking about elementary schoolers are singing songs from this show. Parents are theming BIRTHDAY PARTIES around this.....😰
To millennial parents who are about my age. I understand growing up the way we did with grandparents who were catholic or christian or just strict sucked. It felt like we had no freedom. So we just went behind our parents backs and watched South Park, Family Guy, or youtubers like Shane Dawson. That doesnt mean that now, when we are adults, should just shrug and let these kids watch this content. Just because you say "eh i watched worse 🤡 and i turned out ok" does NOT mean you should be letting your children watch this. Guided or not, this puts children DIRECTLY in front of adults in an adult space with other adults who may want to hurt your child. As someone who had a friend who had parents like you, please stop. My friends content consumption put all of us in danger when a real irl predator used Shane Dawson to relate to my friend when we were in highschool. He traveled over states with a rape kit. And to minors who may see this post and go "eh not that bad" im going to explain what Rape is in detail. Because im seeing that elementary kids are making Rape jokes now.
TW for adults. Im only doing this because the amount of disrespect i saw from these kids who obviously DO NOT understand the gravity of what they are seeing.
Rape is when someone violently forces you to have sex. What is rape really? It is when a person hurts your private parts and sometimes your insides sometimes to the point of bleeding. It is not fun. It is not sexy. It is very embarrassing. and it is painful FOREVER.
You kids who are watching this. Understand that when adults say you are not mature enough. We are not trying to hurt you. We care so much about you and dont want this to happen to you. Many of us that are angry are angry BECAUSE we were the kids who were watching things when we should not have in middle school. I was darred by my middle school trailer park friends to watch 2 girls 1 cup. I was 12. they were 10. My mom had no idea but one of the boys moms was right there.
My point is we are now all affected by what we saw and the consequences of thinking we were "more mature for our age" . What you kids dont know is that these consequences wont come to get you until you are around 23 and trust me they hit harder than you can ever imagine.
Please be safe. Please keep these kids safe. Please educate these fucking kids on this fucking subject or we are going to have so many victims and so many little rapists. who are going to, you mark my words, start young because rn they think its a joke.
Why are they so UGLY 👁️👁️
This last one makes me wanna gargle acid 💀
Thanks for telling everyone about the troll account that pretend to be toastyghost and I've been warning people about it,also tell them to never click on the links!
Oh ya, I forgot to mention that if your a minor
DONT CLICK ON THE LINK!!!!
They deliberately mislead the reader into believing that it’s evidence for Vivziepop being racist only for it to link to an NFSW flash game.
Also, toasty just posted a note saying that person is not them
Listen, you can criticise viv and her shows just don't be an ahole about it. Everyone can state their opinion about something. Not everyone has to like the same thing. What I don't stand for in the critical community is people threatening viv. DO NOT threaten her! She is still a person you have to respect. No matter how bad she is you still have to respect her. For me personally, I hate her but would I go out my way to harass her and accuse her of things? No! SHE IS STILL A PERSON.To fans(or stans at this point),DO NOT harass critics when they are criticising some aspects of the shows. To critics and antis,DO NOT harass fans for liking the shows. Critics have a reason why they don't like viv or some aspects of her shows and fans have their own reason for liking the shows. Also,if you do know, or want to know what viv has done, do not let it change your viewpoint of her shows. Separate the creator from her work. And critics and antis are not the same. Same with fans and stans. That's all.
Imagine imps with these types of tails
the variation of each tail depends on which ring an imp is natively born from
Imps from the Envy Ring would likely have fin-like details at the tips of their tails
Wrath tails tend to have pointy spines on them
Maybe Sloth would have poofy bits of fur at the ends
just some ideas for my rewrite tbh
Thank you for pointing this out, I think I have done something similar and I’ll make sure to do better next time! I agree with everything you’ve said!
seeing a trend in the crit tags where people take art from fan artists, usually without credit, to shit on it. and as much as i have my gripes with the fandom and the show itself, maybe don't do that. somebody still made that, somebody put effort and work into it, and usually you guys don't even fucking credit them. please stop, or if you're gonna punch down on fanartists instead of the creator cause it's easier to bully people who just want to participate in fandom (and then hilariously try to justify it with 'well other people do it why do you only take issue with me doing it?!?!') do the bare minimum and credit the artists.