P5 Violet - Tumblr Posts

ur opinion abt violet is pretty based ngl 😭 she also striked me off as an iffy or obviously 'waifu' character

Thank you for a kindly worded opinion. I felt like I had to personally be prepared for any moment of an online cyber attack of toxic fans going crazy at me for these honest thoughts the moment I decided to post my rant. And I thought it would be a unique ice breaker for seeming like a distant-silent-writer-with-a-writer-blog to others.

I was even hesitant on doing so because of it, knowing that the Persona fan base is no different from any others, fan bases all have their meaner sides. But the more reasons I found out about her, and I found a lot, it just wouldn’t leave my head whenever I saw even a mention of her in Persona fan content. And with Persona coming to Xbox, PC, and Switch, I just felt like I had to let it out or it’d give me a headache. It made me wonder why people love her so much when she has all these things about her that clash. It’s not like they were secrets. They’re literally in front of your face. I just had to let these opinions out and see if there was anyone at all who’d thought the same and I wasn’t alone thinking differently.

You weren’t rude at all, I’m actually impressed and glad to have someone bring a detailed perspective about this!

I think that Sumire was used to relying on Kasumi all the time because Kasumi chose to take the role of being the older sibling a bit too far. Perhaps Kasumi herself didn’t notice Sumire’s inferiority complex or depression or other negative feelings inside and thought teasing was harmless. Who knows? But it’s understandable that Kasumi couldn’t be a saint like Sumire painted her to be. I think it might’ve gotten to the point where Sumire only knows how to overly depend on someone who wouldn’t hesitate to help out of kindness, specifically Joker, as an unconscious choice of “I need someone who wouldn’t hesitate to help me or be around for anything I’d need” as a sort of resemblance to Kasumi. A Pick-Me-Up kinda thing or a cushion to fall on.

It could’ve been because she’s never tried being independent because she thought Maybe she relied on Kasumi more so than her parents? Maybe Sumire has always known to being overly dependent and she prefers to do so, and it could be the same way with the real Kasumi when she acts as her sister or it’s merely an unconscious gesture. She seems to have lacked any drive for independency and individuality in the past since she’d use Kasumi like a shield or a pillar to avoid anything that would teeter her.

But the thing about Sumire is that she’ll have this big scene where she says she has stopped being helpless yet sort reverts back to the same pattern. And while humans tend to go back on old habits, those who are willing for change try and occasionally falter but still grow. It’s human. But Sumire doesn’t seem all that different from before. I’m not totally sure about this idea though. It could always be for another reason.

Regarding the phantom thieves using Sumire’s ideology, I have doubts on this. They wouldn’t need to take her into consideration since they’ve done similar things to letting their targets have time to recover themselves, like the reformation of the Palace Rulers in the first game. They never rushed the outcome of their heist success in changing hearts. Then again, the thieves change hearts for the reason that their target’s desires and emotions are so out of control that they couldn’t change for themselves and are stuck in these states. So the thieves were left with no other option, their hands are tied to finding another method of means outside the Metaverse. The ideology of solving one’s own problems in the first game are shown through the target’s victims in the aftermath and more before Sumire even enters the picture more and mentions it. For example: Mishima and Shiho, and Joker’s confidants (including the thieves). The point of his emotional bonds with others is that although Joker helps them and impacts them, they are the ones themselves who strive for self betterment and the betterment of others in their lives.

These topics that could go any which way depending on each person’s opinions I think. Atlus leaves some things open for interpretation or ambiguous. But that’s my take for the most part. Thank you for your insight.

My Rants: Honest Opinions

My Problem With KaSumi|re Yoshizawa/Violet

Fandom(s): Persona 5: Royal

Summary: Yoshizawa rubbed me off the wrong way since the moment I saw her. I immediately got the sense of ‘Market Seller Waifu For Increase In Sales For Royal’ after seeing her unoriginal thief getup. And I’m unapologetic to admit that she’s my absolute LEAST favourite character despite the ridiculous amount of positive reviews she’s had after Persona 5 Royal’s release. And I couldn’t stop thinking about it after the Atlus announcement for Xbox and PC. Then I figured, I thought to finally expel these annoying thoughts in order to release my pent up frustration.

So here’s why.

Warnings: Spoilers for Persona 5: Royal.

Main Masterlist

Or as I call her: the Mary Sue Waste of Space Doormat Kohai. Cause she’s like a Doormat character with a Senpai fetish. Because let’s face it, does anyone get called Senpai as much as Joker? No.

I know. I put her in my Entwined Hearts story but things will be different as the chapters progress.

The only time she really does anything in the real world is defend and help Joker when he is arrested, but ALL his confidants do that! They’re supposed to do those things after he deepens his bonds to max level, there is nothing new or unique about it with her!

A side note: I find it humorous that crossovers adding Yoshizawa just have to be emphasized with Royal and not simply Persona 5 even though Royal is Persona 5 in general.

Kasumi is a static character, Sumire is the flat.

Her very presence is a shoehorn. Her appearances never really feels natural. She just pops in and out whenever she wants. I would’ve honestly forgotten her if it wasn’t for the ridiculous amount of fans she has that just worships the ground she walks on or anything else she does. Which isn’t a whole lot.

Her looks are an uncreative and reusable mix of FeMC, Mitsuru, Yuko and from P3.

Overly attached to Joker because he’s pretty much the only person she wants to revolve around in her life. She hardly interacts or befriends anyone else. Her gymnastics club members, classmates, other schoolmates, her parents who barely show relevance to her personally, other honour students (there’s no way in hell she’s the only one), and the thieves. As Kasumi, for someone who acts like an extroverted socialite it doesn’t really make sense as to why she doesn’t. Like, talk to a single regular person at all.

And about the thieves; they, for some reason, blindly love her so much after only meeting, like, twice. They barely know her and have rarely interacted or hung out outside the Metaverse. She basically ignores their existence to have this weird honeymoon phase on Joker.

She does not contribute anything to the main plot except for 3rd Semester. Which is at the end of the game. Her first entrance to “save” Joker in Sae’s Palace was wasteful. He’s, not counting Mona, the most experienced fighter out of all the thieves. Joker did not need her help in any way shape or form. P5 vanilla proves that, he didn’t need any of the other thieves as backup when he was evading the Shadows. He’s the freaking main character! Joker’s supposed to have the spotlight for the player. It’s just a lazy introduction to a Mary Sue as a show of fan service beloved by everyone for anything she does or doesn’t do. And that gives the thieves a reason to have her for their “Hey, We Saved The World From Corruption By Taking Down a False God” party?

She rarely figure out the problems presented to her on her own. It’s mostly Joker doing it for her.

KaSumi/re’s social link for the first couple of ranks go the SAME route. You do a family friendly activity, she falls into her so called “slump”, you cheer her up, she promises to work harder than ever, and the cycle repeats to the point where it’s predictable and easy to gain her rank up. How is that interesting?

The same can be said for when she is back to being SUMIRE. Where after ONLY knowing her as Kasumi, you continue her confidant from where you left off. It would’ve made more sense if we were to start over her social link so we’d get to know Sumire properly (even if it’s already January but still). Yet we don’t.

There was nothing off about her being Kasumi in the first place that led to the indication that she wasn’t actually Kasumi. Her attitude stays the same, perky, polite, overly positive, being an airhead (That goes for Sumire too. Seriously, how does one take crappy code names as Appetite and Leotard into actual consideration? How do unused scenes like Akechi suspecting her as the Palace Ruler because of her association with said Palace being about one who craves attention and just let it slip by her?) her talk about her “younger” sister’s death just seemed like something to add for her backstory. Nothing really showed that anything was wrong in her happy go lucky world aside from the few interactions she has with Maruki. Which still hardly makes a difference. Though it didn’t matter if her reveal would’ve happened or not, Sumire just goes back to being the SAME person as when she first started. What were all those 120 hours of progress for..?!

Morgana wanting to recruit her then changing his mind because of Shido makes me deadpan. The thieves faced a perverted and abusive P.E. teacher, a manipulative and gaslighting artist, the freaking mafia, and a selfish and money-hungry CEO father! Everyone had their own lives on the line each! What makes Yoshizawa’s any different..?! I just don’t get it! Didn’t that cat say that powers in numbers is a good thing after recruiting Ann? That whole conversation after Maruki’s Palace was stupid. Because it meant nothing for the main story.

Her reason for awakening is weak and contradictory. Because, when voices of people who talk poorly of her, her motivation for awakening is that they spoke down on the dream she shares with her sister. This goes completely against P5’s themes and it doesn’t work. KaSumi/re never even cared about their opinions anyways, she even vocalizes this as a statement. And her potentially losing her honour student status was her own fault. Even with her second awakening being more meaningful, it still doesn’t justify having a “Spirit of Rebellion”.

Her thief outfit is nothing but a market seller for Royal. Atlus even admits it in their interviews. The only symbolism it has is that she admires Joker so much and sees him as a spitting image of rebellion that she replicates her attire to his, including keeping her Kasumi ponytail. Even Atlus admits this in their interviews that her outfit was just a market seller! The only thing original about it is the leotard because she’s a gymnast, but it’s so impractical. She might as well been wearing a swimsuit, it’d make no difference. And when she finally awakens as Sumire (though not really), her outfit stays the same, hair the same, Persona the same. There is no visible representation of Sumire showcasing individuality that separates her from Kasumi/re. Which is a clue to how she goes back to looking the same as when she was in the beginning. Character development what now? Violet is the same way, Kasumi with just a mask on.

Black just doesn’t seem like Yoshizawa’s colour palette. There’s no reason for wearing black when the only time she does wear it is her Shujin blazer and that’s it.Gymnasts don’t really wear plain black either; it’s usually with a flashy design that comes with dark and light colours, or one with a simpler look. Her leotard being plain black is too… simple? Purple works since she actually wore that for her gymnastics. Everyone somehow loves the inaccuracy of her in a sleeveless leotard that showcase exaggerated body that isn’t her at all, they seem to like using her just for their perverse entertainment, (then again pretty much every female fictional character is like that so this isn’t anything new or a big deal anymore, I don’t know, I can’t be bothered to give a crap knowing that the media does whatever it wants), when gymnasts always wear sleeves. This is just a notice I have over her costume.

Her showtime is weird. (Plus, why can’t Joker have showtime that gives him the spotlight?) So she jumps into his arms for a spin as he shoots down enemies, tosses her to make this strange performance with her deceased sister (does that mean she’s actually touching air and Kasumi is all in her head?), and has Joker twirl her into a dip. Just how deprived of his attention are you? Did Nintendo really have to give us the unnecessarily pointless scene of Yoshizawa’s dancing and her showtime as part of P5’s trailer of branching out to other consoles? Akechi’s showtime clip hardly balances that out considering it was short and at the end.

What was the whole point of that ridiculous dance cutscene of her and Joker? A shoehorn by Atlus as ship bait between the true star of the game and Trashy-zawa. Guess they’d go with any shoehorn to get people to continue talking about Royal.

Sumire’s backstory is just a recycle from the other girls’ story arcs. Especially Lavenza, who goes on to have an identity crisis herself where she is split into TWINS. I find that no body that I’ve seen has mentioned this. We didn’t need another twin story AGAIN.

There was also no purpose for Joker to be meeting her father. It only left the impression of a random encounter who you meet only once. Which is exactly what happened. What, is it so Yoshizawa would see something off-putting from Maruki’s Palace? That could’ve been done any other way or time.

Her connection to Cendrillon is off and strange. All the stories of Cinderella have many things in common: she’s a waif, she is looked down on by her household, verbally abused, put into forced labour, shown to be a genuine person, and is saved by a man who solves all her problems. All these bad things in Cinderella’s life happens TO her out of jealousy, spite, and cruelty. Sumire goes through none of that. She has a sister who cares about her, and parents that care about her, too. There is no ill mistreatment anywhere done TO her from when she was Sumire before Shujin. The thing she said about Kasumi making the decisions for her, like her clothes, is because Sumire lets her. She could’ve said anything at anytime and Kasumi would’ve listened. They’re siblings! Twins for crying out loud! They would’ve spent everything together knowing each other’s quirks, habits, and flaws. Yet Sumire puts the image that Kasumi is perfect in every way (Mary Sue) when she’s spent years with learning all about her twin. Sumire’s a Mary Sue for the fact that everything she does or doesn’t do is positively received no matter the situation. There’s also the fact that there doesn’t seem to be any ground reason as to why Sumire has an inferiority complex over her sister other than that Kasumi is considered the better gymnast. Is that all? Depression can happen to anyone, of course, but her large amount of jealousy of Kasumi feels kinda off in the writing aspect. And since we only get to see Real Kasumi once, ONCE, we don’t know the dynamics of their relationship. She and Cendrillon share only two things: they go to a ball pretending to be someone else and is saved by a man who solves all their problems. Joker saves her by revealing the truth of her identity, and her coming back as Sumire after almost a year of being brainwashed. Though the same can be applied to Maruki as she sort of consented to the identity crisis, and tried to stop Joker from undoing so. And what, after a short timespan when the thieves rescue her she figures herself out and then suddenly accepts Kasumi’s death with a big ole speech? Sure, she talks about it with Joker, and while it’s nice to have someone to talk to about these things, that doesn’t magically solve all of a person’s problems in one fell swoop. Sumire should’ve gone back to therapy with an actual therapist, and talked honestly to her parents about her mental problems. She doesn’t struggle much from being in her own skin again. Joker isn’t the center of her existence! She feels like an imaginary friend from all the times she’s around Joker and no one else. It’s like she ignores them. Having Cendrillon as her Persona just feels like a symbolism of entitlement, considering that her Persona doesn’t change after reclaiming herself as Sumire.

When the game FINALLY reveals what Trash-izawa’s deal is in being a Persona-User in the first place, I’ve already clocked out, exited, lost interest in her reused backstory that the element of surprise failed. To have to go through the main plot (the important part) of the entire game, we had to reach the end with Third Semester to get her reason for being (useless) meaning, to the end, just leaves everything dry. We could’ve gotten to know more about how Maruki’s powers work and what other patients he might have affected. Because is it really believable that he only inflicted Yoshizawa throughout the time he had gotten his Persona?

This chick gives me mixed signals. I can’t tell if she just feels guilty for being the cause of her sister’s death, or that she even misses her, or even that she blames her as an overbearing sibling. You allowed her to be that way! And, isn’t it also because she wanted to become Kasumi so much that found an opportunity to do so deep down?

She’s in loves with Joker no matter what you do. It’s like she doesn’t know what platonic relationships are. It’s like spending time with a guy has to mean romance. Then again, any person but Joker doesn’t exist to her. And who did you love him as exactly, Sumire? Kasumi or you? Because Joker has only ever known Kasumi. To him he’s only just met you. It makes me appreciate Aigis, Rise, and Marie more because they were nothing compared to the level of shoehorning Yoshizawa brings. At least Marie interacts with everyone.

KaSumi/re seems to have the habit of being an overbearing airhead. Everything flies passed her unless it’s about herself. Makes sense for the 10% amount of times she shows up in the game.

Whether it’s Kasumi or Sumire, they’re stalkers regardless. Her following the thieves into Sae’s Palace because she “felt something big was going to happen” is such a poor excuse. What, does everything Joker does have to apply to you? Just how long did you wait in the Palace? Did you have anything to eat? Creep. Her stalking the team in the nurse’s office out of no where was weird. How long have you been tailing them, huh? How did you conveniently find out about their meeting? Answer: there’s no explanation for it. It’s a plot hole players have no problem ignoring like it’s a reasonable thing.

Why does her being skinny while eating a lot matter so much to everyone that it has to be brought up all the time? She’s an athlete, we get it. Ryuji is no different! He’s an athlete for track for track and field!

All Kasumi cares about in this big wide world is gymnastics and nothing else. Sumire’s goal is not too different either. Yet her growth for betterment feels too short for someone who had an identity crisis for almost a year.

KaSumi/re has hardly any stakes as a Phantom thief. She doesn’t even have a reason to join their cause! She didn’t even agree with them that time she met up with Joker and Akechi.

When she said that only the person has to be the one to change their situation, she is literally undermining what happened with the cases of Kamoshida, Madarame, Kaneshiro, Shiro. Their victims were people who couldn’t stand up to them because they were powerless with hardly much choice. Joker, Shiho, Mishima, Ann, Yusuke, etc.

She gives me the same vibes as Marinette Dupen-Chang from Miraculous Ladybug. Who is also not a good character.

Joker, Violet, and Crow are a bizarre team. Her and Crow don’t even have anything in common for their dynamic. Their first meeting was just a shoehorn. It wasn’t necessary, it’s just lazy writing.

Thank gods she isn’t in Strikers, all she’d be was an out of place extra who is unable carry her weight. And she has no motive to even be one of them. Royal’s true ending proves that when she isn’t in the van with the thieves. Guess that goes to show how much of an afterthought she was to Atlus.

Part of me was disappointed that Persona 5 vanilla wasn’t coming to Switch so that I could avoid the pain of dealing with Yoshizawa. At least there’s 3 and 4 to look forward to.

But hey, if you can make reasonable opinions over this then I’ll respect that, and maybe my thoughts of her will be persuaded. Unless you want to be an asshole about free will of opinions and open mindedness then please leave this post now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It’s not like this post is a matter of life or death that demands bitchy responses. I draw the line on hate over just having an honest opinion different from others. Especially with any fans of any fanbase, that take things unnecessarily too far. Your love for this character doesn’t give you the right to attack me when I’m only pointing out what I’ve noticed about her and how my personal perspective is affected by those points. And as I’ve stated, I am open to seeing her in a different light, given reasonable and understandable viewpoints without the hostility.

I may continue making these points further. I just had to get this off my chest, even if her fans blast me for my personal opinions that have obvious pointers. Annabeth Chase from the Riordanverse books will eventually become my next rant. She and the “Percabeth” ship had always bothered me since I first read the series as a kid. And growing up, I learned plenty of reasons as to why.

Can I give my two cents on Yoshizawa? Coming from someone that just finished Royal and also likes Aigis and Rise (and can understand why people hate her as well, it takes time to warm up to her). Sorry, english isn't my first language. This isn't also a hate message, just giving my honest opinion.

As someone who always struggled with depression and self steem issues, I really liked Sumire's portrayal and her wishing to be another person (in this case, her "better" twin).

I'll first adress the points in which I agree with you. First, her clothes. You're right, she shouldn't wear black clothes. I think, as she had her true awekening, her clothes could change and have similar colors as her third awakening.

Ok, back to the arguments. I shall tackle them in order.

The only time she helps Joker in the real world is to get him out of jail. - I could say the same about the other confidants. Only Ryuji stuck up to him against Kamoshida, and Shido on the elevator scene (and you can also defend him back if you have enough guts).

Her appearances never feel normal. - I played Vanilla before, so I knew whenever a new scene was popping up with Sumire, Akechi and Maruki. Maybe you think they're shoehorned because you already know she's a new character? Like, that feeling that "oh she wasn't here before".

Overly attached to Joker. - Think about it this way. She just lost her sister (in her mind, Kasumi lost Sumire). And while she behaved as Kasumi, everyone knew who she really was. Talking to her was awkward and like walking on eggshells. Joker, because he didn't know about this situation, he acted normal around her and even helped with her depressive episodes. So, she respected him. Sometimes we need this person to remind us that it's okay to have doubts but we can't let them win. But you said it, she ACTS like a extroverted socialite. She isn't one.

The thieves love her and she ignores them. - Hm... no? She respects all of them equally, specially Futaba and Mona. I do think she least interacted with Yusuke and Ann, but she and Ryuji did talk as well (but well it's Ryuji).

She does not contribute to the plot until the 3rd semester. - She was busy trainning and going on competitions. There's even a whole week she isn't around because of it. That's the same reason she doesn't join the Thieves at first. She's busy. Simple as that. Just like Akechi joined you because of his goals, she couldn't join you because of her goals.

Her first ranks and her "slumps". - Depression does this to a person, you can be happy one time and suddenly a tiny obstacle creates this wave of "I'm not good enough I shouldn't be here I shouldn't be happy." Cognition or not, she had suffered the loss of her sister and wasn't getting results while trainning. Anything could put her down. I've been there myself and I still struggle with it sometimes.

The social link doesn't reset/You only know Kasumi, not Sumire/ her perky attitude didn't change/her awakening doesn't make sense - We know Sumire. Sure, she's pretending to be Kasumi, but deep down she's still Sumire. There's an event where she makes a bento for Joker, and it looks atrocious, but when he tastes it it's just curry. In her mind she should be a bad cook, but her food comes out alright anyway. Plus we get snippets about the plot twist, the phone never working, we never saw a picture of her sister. Also, we know her when she was depressed for being her sister's shadow (cutscene with the car accident) but we don't know how she usually acted. We know, thanks to her trainer, that she was quieter and more graceful than Kasumi. Doesn't mean she wasn't perky at the time, and she has as much talent as her twin. In her eyes, Kasumi was better because she won all the time, but Sumire got just as much trainning as her. And Shujin, when Kasumi was alive, wanted BOTH of them enrolled with special status. Self doubt and depression made her underperform, even before losing her sister. Knowing this, her awakening DOES make sense, specially when you consider what her persona was saying. Ok we have Sumire/Kasumi, her sister just died and you're carrying the dream for both of you. You get enrolled with special status, all students are talking about you (we see scenes about the gossip right at the start of the game), the school is expecting great results and in your mind you're "the best of the best". But come competition after competition, you can't perform well. The students that praised you now badmouth you, and even after a third place the higher ups aren't satisfied. No wonder she would almost snap at the palace, SPECIALLY after seeing her sister dying AGAIN (remember, she doesn't know about cognitions yet so it was just like seeing her die again). Her persona says "You strive towards splendor... you know the risk... well if these were the shoes that you chose." You know the risk = she's a fake, and deep down she knows it (self doubt, depression); the shoes that you chose = continue pretending to be Kasumi. On her TRUE awakening, her persona even says "such tenacity, it seem to fit you better than ever before. The glass slippers are a sign of glory." Right at the start of this exploration, Sumire was still faltering due to her self sabotage. But now, NOW she's ready to fully commit and accept who she is. The glory of being herself and being proud of it.

Why did she dance at the school festival. - she's a famous athlete. Students love famous people. She was called because she was recognized.

Why did her father show up? - well we DID help choosing his glasses. jokes aside, it's to foreshadow even further about Sumire's true identity. He says her name, but it gets cut off. We only hear "... re" something like that. Also, two reasons. One, Maruki was making this series of "perfect and happy coincidences" between the characters, so much so that even them commented on it. Her father showing up is also one of those happy coincidences. Two, this man lost one of his children in a tragic accident. I wonder how come he didn't show up MORE. Picking her up from school, from trainning. He should be a little paranoid about her safety.

Why Cinderella/Cendrillon? - Cinderella suffered out of jealousy, ok. Sumire suffered out of jealousy, for her SISTER. Plus, remember, Cinderella had one key aspect: she wished to go to the ball, have the best night ever, maybe meet the prince but she wanted to get out of the shadows. Sumire's biggest wish is to get out of Kasumi's shadow and "go to the ball" so to speak. In this case, to be acknowledged, just as Cinderella was. From ashes to glass. I do think it's quite fitting for her, other fairy tales like Ugly Duckling and Little Mermaid could fit as well.

She suddenly accepted her sister's death. - she got a reality check, had her persona beaten, got in a moody and depressive state. She DID run away from the fact for almost a year. She rralized she had to stop running at some point.

We could've known other patients he helped. - I think the game implies he only helped Rumi and Sumire. He was busy working on his research, and then counseling at Shujin. If he had a chance, he should have helped other students there. Plus the game explicity says that he changed reality because WE the Phantom Thieves asked for it.

She loves Joker no matter what you do. - so does Haru. And Ann.

She stalks you into the palace. - she's worried about her friends after you implied you had an important job. I'd tag along as well just to be sure. And Lavenza went to the nurse's office as the butterfly. She probably saw it as well, IT'S A GLOWING BLUE BUTTERFLY.

Why everyone talks about how much she eats? - it's a trope, probably like Goku or Luffy. It's a japanese game after all.

She doesn't have a reason to join! - She does. It is "stop Maruki and his weird reality". When she joined Joker and Akechi, neither of them knew what was going on as well. They were the only ones with their memories and that's it. They joined up to solve the mystery. She joined up go help. After that, to stop Maruki.

She has Marinette vibes - ... I don't see it? And I watched a lot of Ladybug, got a bit out of hand yikes. But Marinette is a lackluster character I'll give you that.

AAAAAAND I guess that's it? Wow I wrote a lot. If you read it, thank you so much. Once again I'm not attacking you or anything, I'm giving you my honest opinion.

But I'm gonna say: I hated her goodbye scene in Royal. Maruki left you at the station (Billy Kametz c.c), the gang had an awesome farewell and she just... stumbles across you? What was THAT Atlus?

Those are some details, and I appreciate you being polite about them.

I might need to reinstate my thoughts, points, and counters regarding yours:

I can’t say I’ve totally understood the way the game portrays Sumire’s mental struggles… I mean I’ve also hit a really hard time in my life in high school where I was alone in going through these struggles for some time. And the way people go through their own mental hardships can be different for everyone. But Sumire never emphasizes what her “slump” is, or explains the cause for it. She says it like she doesn’t know the reason, and makes it sound like it’s only a simple slump throughout the first five confidant rankings. She’s been pretending to be Kasumi for some time so maybe it was a mind block from tying her back to who she really was? It’s really her confidence that’s shaky, and Joker repeats the same method of saying a phrase to encourage her, and she goes right back to being perky again without pause. Her slump is always dealt with in the same way the first half of her confidant. She seems to just take it as face value like a compliment.

Even with people feeling awkward about her acting and calling herself Kasumi, it’s not a valid enough reason for avoiding her like the plague. Shujin students I get, but her other fellow gymnasts would be the closest thing to interacting with her and having at least a simple conversation, like Makoto with the student council members. She probably wouldn’t have had to lean on him all the time if her parents or her.. teammates? club members? or maybe a single person talked to her and weren’t so set off about her identity issue. It’d be something like Ann and Shiho, Makoto and Eiko, and Mishima with the guys, or just an acquaintance. I don’t know.

I do find your point of her social link interesting over what she could’ve been feeling herself. But it all feels up for interpretation from before she came to Shujin and when she was Kasumi. Joker did what he always does, helping someone because he was somehow out of the loop about her actual identity when none of the thieves, from Shujin, talk about it. I mean I know it’s for the reveal but this detail was something so simple that could easily be solved. Maybe it’s because they thought Joker was calling her Kasumi for her own sake but he could’ve been informed about it, it feels like a loophole.

I had forgotten about her phone. And it doesn’t really makes sense as to why it’s broken only that Sumire’s or Kasumi’s was damaged and she either kept her phone or taken Kasumi’s. The explanation for that is weird. Did she really need Kasumi’s phone to be her sister?

The thieves love her after meeting her how many times outside the Metaverse without brief meetings like she had full conversations with them every time? Futaba and Mona are taken with her right off the bat because of her politeness for being the same age as Futaba with a different personality and interest for being a Persona-User and an athlete. She’s a Persona-User, that’s usually what catches other Persona-Users’ interest, especially the thieves. The most it feels like she interacts with them is in the Metaverse in Maruki’s Palace. Just because she respects them doesn’t mean they have something close to a max 10 rank up up of a powerful bond like the whole team sorta has. Respect can be different from willingly choosing to make close connections because one likes to have a bond with another. Respect can be broken down in many forms.

Her awakening shows no real form of rebellion for an oppressed society that has personally and wrongfully affected her. She has verbally stated that she does not care for people’s opinions and understands the consequences of losing her honour status as a result for ranking lower instead of first place. She did the best she could with what she was already doing and the outcome was what it was. I figured that time she saw her cognitive self was a sort of reminder of her she really was. Like a clue. Considering that her other self from the other world said that it’s her fault, the other self, felt strange and out of place because we don’t know the reason why. If it was just self discovery then that would fit. But she shares nothing that fits with the themes of Persona 5 as a Persona-User. Altus breaks those rules for her. There shouldn’t have been a point for her to have a Persona with such weak reasoning. Her second awakening still has nothing to do with rebellion. And to awaken again the second time with no changes? Hypocritical for the point of the Persona series. It would’ve made sense whether or not she had to even be a Persona-User in the place. Her growth, realization, and moving on from her past would’ve still been affective like the other confidants who reached a point in their lives where the change is known, yet didn’t need a Persona to showcase that. I feel caught in the middle about it.

Her being busy is one thing, but to be out of the story so much with only gaps in between from her appearances just doesn’t feel like a character that can connect the player so strongly as opposed to everyone else. Everyone has responsibilities. Haru has to work on her family company, Yusuke tries to find stability as an independent artist after Madarame, Makoto deals with the student council and doing well with her grades, Ryuji goes back to training as an athlete while working on recovering his leg, and Ann has to deal with the struggles of making it out as a model for her career. Akechi goes through crap with Shido as the Black Mask, being a detective, keeping appearances, and being a student. That’s kind of the point, her goals clash with why she doesn’t need to join the thieves outside of dealing with Maruki. Other than that, she’s got no stakes. She has a life for gymnastics that takes her on a more divided path from others. It’s a lazy excuse of writing to bother even including a character and deeming them important when they deliver no reason of significance to the viewer and backfire their involvement. Akechi doesn’t really count as his reasons and motives are intwined with the thieves’.

The whole school dance and she’s a famous athlete and all is one thing. But is she really the only well known athlete in the entire school for students to be talking about her all the time? It makes me curious about that. And if it’s a school dance, why aren’t any of the thieves who attend Shujin be there? I think I’ve forgotten as to why. But Atlus could’ve come up with any scenario and they chose a dance to bring the obvious ship of her and Joker.

I can really see other fairytale folklore characters that fit her, too, like what you’ve previously mentioned. Though none really fit P5’s themes of fighting for a cause for others and themselves. But I still get the vibe that while her jealousy is shared with Cinderella’s stepsisters, and she becomes someone else to be something than more than what she was, nothing changes about her after that. Her only freedom was through the prince, who took her away from her household and live a happy ending. And while her circumstances are understandable as to why she couldn’t achieve it alone, Cinderella seems like she doesn’t really change. And it’s someone else who does everything for her. To her stepfamily they could’ve perceived her differently, but Cinderella’s character doesn’t appear to change. It feels like a bit of a static character situation, maybe even more. I suppose it’s because she’s acting good in spite of her situation. But I can get behind why Cendrillon fitted her but also not, it just leaves the impression that her and her Persona stays the same. Cendrillon could at least look a little different to bring more evidence of growth instead of giving lines. I think that may be just me..?

The whole eating trope is ridiculous for having it be stated all the time. It feels overused, and to have it be stated every time she eats becomes an unnecessarily boring mention. Especially when the thieves have Ryuji, an athlete himself who they should know exercises a lot. It’s like they don’t know what being an athlete even means.

You can avoid a romance with Ann and Haru by choosing choices that aren’t actually responses to love confessions. Example: when Ann says she’s about to cry on Rank 9, you can comfort her platonically by saying she has the others. It’s the same with EVERY female confidant love interest. There’s an implication for a romance, but you can at least avoid it if you want to.

Your point with her father is something I can agree on. But does getting new glasses with her really deserve a confidant rank? And her tie with Maruki feels loose, and from the time she acted as Kasumi, it didn’t feel like her story expanded to how close of a connection she has to him. Maruki is just far more interesting.

We really didn’t get a chance to see how her student status affected her. But at the same it feels too similar to Makoto’s situation as well in a writing standpoint.

Sumire probably didn’t realize the process of losing her sister for almost a year. She did have her cognition be to probably think and act like Kasumi where their processing of grief is different. Perhaps she didn’t feel the impact of what Kasumi might’ve felt and if the roles were reversed and she wasn’t too heartbroken over herself because of her subconscious? She could’ve only just been processing her thoughts fresh as Sumire because she finally gets to truly be herself again. BUT, part of that just doesn’t sit right, because she said it herself that she knew deep down that her sister was dead (one of them had to be) and that pretending was wrong. That basically confirms that she is actually aware of what she has been doing this whole time. She really did want to be Kasumi. This is just my interpretation.

I did not mean about Maruki’s change in reality. I meant to wondering about the amount of time he has had since obtaining his Persona and what he’s done with his powers that had led up to the moment of his Palace.

She stalked Joker out of just sheer curiosity and not about minding his privacy that had nothing to do with her? Especially the important job that could’ve meant anything that was of no matter to her. Sure, it makes sense for her to care, but to just blindly follow and stayed in the Metaverse for who knows how long does explain much to me. I’m not sure if I’ve missed out an a detail or something. And what friends? She’s only behaved courteously with the thieves like what a professional relationship would be for a workplace. Nice but nothing deep behind it. And their relationship remains the same. The blue butterfly in the office is an iffy one. Other students were there and they didn’t see it. It’s like when some of the Velvet Room Attendants had gone through a veil of invisibility to the outside world accept their guests. Like the various locations of the Velvet Room in the real world and the Metaverse. Not even the thieves, or any team from P3/4 see the doors accept the guest. This could’ve went in a similar route. Like with Marie where she found support with all the members of the Investigation Team whereas Sumire only had that from Joker.

I had also meant something different as to why she had no reason to join the thieves’ cause. It’s obvious that she’d join to stop Maruki because she was personally affected by him and wanted to help. But as a writing standpoint, joining to simply help without having the shared standard goal of a group who strive for betterment from injustice, who personally experienced injustice and have it affect their lives deeply as motivation doesn’t work.

That’s what I mean for the most part when I inputted that Sumire gave the vibes of a similar lacklustre character who goes with seeking someone as their main person of attention. Marinette was the only character I could think of that gave even remotely a similarity. The two are portrayed as good characters despite their actions that leaves a lot of room for questioning why that even is.

Hi hi! I'm back. I kind of shocked you took your time answering me, I'll be honest. I thought you'd just dismiss everything I said (specially with such a lengthy text). So thank you, really!

I'm going to answer you back as well, if you don't mind. And once again, I'm not attacking you, just giving you my honest opinion. And once again, I'll tackle your points in order.

- When I get my anxiety attacks and depressive episodes, I act just like Sumire on her slumps. Maybe that's why I can resonate so much with her on those first ranks. Maybe it's a difference in our life experiences and how we tackled it? You think it's lackluster, I think it's subtle enough. And I agree with you on how she slowly was trying to regain herself but Maruki's actualization kept in check. I think that's how we got the little snippets of the real Sumire inside (the bento incident).

- I think the other athletes thought she had lost it and she was going crazy. In Japan, mental health issues is a real sensitive topic and people try to avoid "different" people. It may be a little graphic, but if you have time read about the Sagamihara stabbings. Also, that's the issue. Sumire had her Shiho. Her Eiko. It was Kasumi, and she lost her. And we, in fact, get to talk to her trainer twice so there's our "person in the area".

- About the phone: I don't think it was really broken, nor it was Kasumi's phone. It was Sumire's phone. The lag, the malfunctioning, it was all due to Maruki's interference. When she calls you and we get to listen to her first call ever, her voice is all Darth Vader like. Plus, Joker calls her Kasumi because Sumire carries Kasumi's student id, issued before her death. Joker being Joker and helping out is the reason we can reach the true Sumire. After all, if you don't advance her confidant you can't reach the Royal route.

- I think you're partially right on your point about the Phantom Thieves and their friendship. I do think their friendship get the usual flow: meet, persona time, join the team, funny banter. They like her, they are friends. But you're right, it isn't a rank 10 friendship between them. That's evident with the last cutscene. The gang joins up to help you get to the station, but she arrived there first? Why didn't she go with them? And what the fudge I HATE THAT SCENE. It's so lackluster for her character. A disservice.

- I think BOTH of her awakenings show a Spirit of Rebellion, yes. First time she's rebelling against common sense. About the fact she has to accent she isn't Kasumi and never will be. Hence, the dialogue about "these are the shoes that you chose". The second awakening, rebellion is against MARUKI'S SOCIETY. Remember, he had already changed the entire world at this point and he's saying "it's okay, you can keep on dreaming. Your pain will go away." At this time, she rejects this version of the world, thus finally embracing herself and achieving the "true glass slippers": her own self.

- About connection with the player, well, even with the new brief Haru scenes I still couldn't like her and her confidant. Both of them suffer a LOT by being the last kids on the bunch, and after you get her rank 5 there's not much else you can do together until Sumire becomes relevant again. Thinking about it, Akechi sometimes disappears as well aka you can't raise his confidant in some months. Now, about the goals, the only ones I think it can trully compare are Ann and Yusuke. She does decide to be an international model, but only AFTER you do her confidant. She wasn't serious before. It was a hobby. Ryuji goes back to track at the end of the game. Haru is busy with the company, but at the same time she always has time for you. She's always tending her garden. I don't know.

- Is she the only well known athlete? Yes!

Remember, the star of the school was Kamoshida and the volleyball team. After he confessed, Shujin's reputation was in shambles and only the Yoshizawa twin(s) were left. And about the dance... they did say they were busy/going home. And her dance is even after you have a romantic rendevouz with a love interest and Ryuji, so they really don't have a reason to stick in school.

- Giving you once again the point that Cendrillon (and her clothes for that matter) should have changed after her true awakening. Specially with the knowledge that Personas have the form of one's true psyche. And Cendrillon fits like a glove -- or, rather, a shoe -- in the themes. Your argument is that "[Cinderella] doesn't fight for a cause for other and themselves." That's true. But so doesn't Carmen. Or Milady. Or Captain Kidd. So what does a pirate, two femme fatales, a legendary thief, two vigilantes and fairy tale princess have in common?

They're all tricksters!

Yaldabaoth made two Main Trickers, Joker and Akechi. But the other personas are just as much tricksters as them. Milady is a femme fatale that doesn't have a clear side. Captain Kidd was a corsair. Robin Hood and Goemon stole from the rich to give to the poor. Arsene Lupin was a gallant thief and Zorro fought for his people.

Why is Cinderella/Cendrillon a trickster?

Because she disguised herself to go to the ball, so much so her family could recognize her. She TRICKED them and the prince, making him think she was noblity!

- The eating trope. I dind't mind it, but I read a lot of shounen. What made me cringe was the beach scenes, yukata scenes, fhe fanservice. But again, japanese game.

- Romance: You can avoid their romance, but Haru already loves you by the point you reach rank 9. And if you say you're only friends, she asks to be left alone and goes to her room. Plus on many moments on her confidant other people ask if you two are a thing or not. Other than her, I THINK Chihaya? She reads her cards? I don't know she's the second worst romance I rushed it.

- Getting new glasses for her dad deserves a rank? Yes because it's not about the glasses. It's about Sumire choosing something by herself. She was ready to leave that responsibility to Joker, but he gave her his moral support and she did get to choose it. She even lampshades it.

- When you like your therapist, you develop this bound in which they become kind of like your second family. You can talk anything to them. Maruki did say, at the beginning of the game, that she was a former patient of his, we get to see when and how he changed her cognition. And, remember, she was depressed because her sister had died and suddenly after only one t

visit she's all better. It's a miracle! He's THAT good! He helped her on her worst moment! Maruki is as important for her as Joker.

- Effect of her student status: in what way? I mean we saw how everyone acted before and after she started underperforming. Other students gossip she can take tests whenever, skip class all the time with no repercutions. I think it's enough. She's special. More explanation would go into exposition territory.

- About her processing about her twin death, I just thought about something reading your point. Maybe her recovery was fast because she was already processing the death. It IS a reach but, say. Sumire, pretending to be Kasumi, came to terms to her sister's death. Okay. Once Sumire went back, since she was already processing the loss, the shock went full on "wtf who am I really?" And I think most of her trauma came with the guilty that she contributed to her sister's death.

- What was Maruki doing? I think it's what we saw. He helped Rumi. Kept his research in secret while taking care of some patients. One of them was Sumire. She was a drastic case so he helped her. I don't think he helped more people at this time, and if he did, they were extreme cases like Rumi and Sumire. They were irrelevent, tho. Because they were like Rumi and Sumire. If he did help more people, they were unremarkable to him. Sumire was his second successful case. His Persona wasn't fully awakened yet, keep that in mind. He got the job at Shujin to keep an eye on Sumire while finishing his paper and keeping up with the kids.

- The blue butterfly: only the persona users could see it. And the party members did get invited to the Velvet Room and talked to both Lavenza and Igor, with the exceptions of Akechi (probably went before tho bc Yaldabaoth) and Sumire.

- She stalking him and the important job: Mona knew amd talked about it, so most likelly it was Phantom Thieves business. Why else would a talking cat care?

- But it was for the betterment of society and saving it from injustice. Maruki wanted the world to like by his rules, he had good intentions but his views were flawed, as seen by that part in his palace where you answered quizzes with what was right and wrong. Plus, remember, at first Sumire didn't agree with the Phantom Thieves changing hearts because she wishes for people to be able to solve their own problems by themselves. People should be able to stand on their own, without relying to a god, a group of teens or someone dictating their lives and take away the pain. Free will and struggle are too important for her, which is also a shock when you realize Maruki's meddling with her cognition. BTW I think this is also one of the moments where we can see, deep down, this is Sumire's view of the world. If she was only mimicking Kasumi, when we explored the palace she could have agreed to Maruki or wouldn't feel unconfortable on the quizz part. The question about "give up on your dream and get a new one" really hurt her.

- Marinette is a static character. Her views get challenged, she gets more roles (being the new guardian and everything) but at the end of the day she's still the same old Marinette. They even get TIME TRAVEL ffs Astruc. On the other hand, the Sumire from the start of the game is not the same from the end, the whole "stole identity act" aside. She gets braver, she stands up for herself and what's right, she finally can reach international competitions, comes to terms with her sister's demise and even gets her self confidence back.

OOF! DONE!

Sorry if I made any spelling mistake, english isn't my first language, it's 1 am over here and im tired.

Once again thank you if you took your time reading, I'm loving our talks.

NOTE: This will be my last post over this discussion as I will not be accepting messages regarding this debate topic anymore. My original post that led to these exchange of views was just meant for me to let these bubbling thought go, leaving it behind and moving on with my continuation for writing. An outlet. And while I appreciate the responses of different opinions, please understand and respect my choice that I am done with it and am moving on.

Your long discussion is something else, I’m impressed by you making an extended analysis and outlook. And it’s kind of hard to dismiss a message from my inbox with such a lengthy text. I feel like I’m kinda overwhelmed seeing the time you take to message me again regarding the topic further. Though I have to admit that this subject has brought burnout for me, as I am brought to think about her again when I was going for moving on from her. But I’m not pointing fingers at you or anyone else. My opinion on her has hasn’t changed much, she is a poorly written character who is still my least favourite, but she had potential to be something if under the right circumstances.

Though I can see your point of view, I can’t help but diverge from them as well. There are gaps where we probably won’t totally look at things about the character the same way, which I understand and mean no rudeness by it.

Also, thank you for the follow. Though I’m not sure if my regular posts would be appealing to you following me based on our discussion, considering I run a storytelling blog, aside from the inbox discussion which is not actually my preference to do on Tumblr. I thought the other debate would leave a different impression but I’m glad it didn’t.

Anyways, back to my point of view.

For the slumps, I suppose I just view them from the writing perspective for the most part. I can see it being subtle as well, but perhaps too subtle to the point where it’s not elaborated enough for her story. I think Atlus should’ve done more to link her connection with Maruki further, like her routinely going to his sessions so he’d keep her cognition in check, more showy in being off putting if not, etc, since it felt like she stayed the same when acting as her sister until the reveal happened. Everyone has slumps, but her’s can’t be different she is not introspective enough that there’s more to it then that. If she was more about the loss of her sister when acting as Kasumi then there’d be a reason for the difference in her slumps.

It makes sense for Japan to walk around topics from mental health as a country who thinks about it differently from others. I’m not going to put a label any more than that as these subjects are never to be defined by others as one thing or be something that everyone agrees on. I wouldn’t put Kasumi as being Sumire’s Eiko or Shiho since I was actually meaning about her association currently instead of the past. Especially when we know more about those two unlike the real Kasumi. I would say she was more like Sae for the sister aspect, including the predictable similarities the Yoshizawas have with the Niijimas and the grief and loss of their father, and Futaba’s mother Wakaba. Her trainer wouldn’t be quite the same as she’s only in Yoshizawa’s life when it’s about her training and classes but nothing so familial. When the real ‘person in the area’ should’ve been her parents after losing one of their kids. And their lack of involvement is disappointing. Her words spoken when choosing to battle Joker and Akechi show that she hadn’t accepted her sister’s death with healing and affirmation during the times she impersonated her. That is not how a person overcomes grief. Acting as a deceased loved one and ignoring the reality of it is not acceptance, it’s avoidance and a coping method of blocking out the truth. It’s unhealthy. And her parents are pretty crappy because of how they respond to that situation. Her father makes only a rare appearance, they aren’t being constant figures in her life, and they let her parade around as Kasumi when they should’ve sat her down and talked to her about what she is doing to herself and to them as a family. Sumire’s cognition only affects her, so they know the truth. It’s not how anyone should go about loss and sorrow when it doesn’t resolve anything but a painful reminder. If they had bothered to care more about their daughter’s situation and be more present and involved in her life, Sumire wouldn’t be so pushed to the edge of her inner struggles when she could talk to them about it. And a point that you’ve mentioned on how people had distanced themselves from her is saying that, aside from her parents, coach, and obviously Joker and Maruki, there has apparently not been a single decent person at all in her life besides the obvious four where two are not around enough. This just proves that whatever so called bond she has with the thieves is so minuscule and inconsistent when she doesn’t even consider them. They’re the ones out of the other confidants of Joker that she interacts with, yet those interactions have no substance as she discredits them compared to Joker, who she only gives her real attention to when it should’ve been in fair amounts in regards to having anyone decent in her life.

To have her phone be malfunctioning by Maruki is a bit strange to me since his powers are a little confusing. That detail doesn’t happen to the other thieves when he grants their wishes and affects their mentality. It may be the side affect of her cognition, but if that were the case then only Yoshizawa would’ve been the only one affected by her phone malfunctioning. But we can notice the malfunction, too. So it has to be that she took her sister’s phone or her phone was broken herself from the impact of the traffic accident. But that would depend on if the twins had their phones on their person in their bags. Yet that is also iffy when her phone goes back to normal, so she’s either gotten herself a new one or something. It’s just confusing and weird. Yoshizawa’s ID is all Joker had to go off of in identifying her anyways, but there’s creative opportunities in finding out her real name. Since everyone apparently knew what happened and her backstory, it must’ve landed on the news. I’d think that advancing her confidant didn’t need to be the reason to reach the royal route when Maruki is the star of Third Semester, a confidant, and has interactions with everyone that can leave a more interesting opportunity for royal’s route. It revolves around him like Nyx, Izanami, and Yaldabaoth. And he is similar to Nyx and Yaldabaoth in the sense that the three are both responding to what people wanted. While she answers to humanity’s desire for death and extinction, while he and Yaldabaoth are about granting deepest desires, which compensates for their own benefits.

Maybe the point Atlus made for the end meeting of Yoshizawa was that she’s fine to go back to her life as nothing ties her to the thieves anymore. Because her one true objective was defeating Maruki, and having achieved that, went to continue her career as a gymnast. Which would majorly diverge her path from others due to absences, different goals, that kind of thing. Since the only thing she cares about is gymnastics, it’s her priority that she holds above all else. Which could even transcend the thieves. It makes sense that her and Cendrillon are the odd ones out.

I feel like her first awakening needed more than just ‘going against common sense’. Her failings of gymnastics other than for her own personal goals mean nothing else to her. The dialogue for her first awakening explains that that’s the reason for her rebellion, what others have said about her. When, in contradictory, she factly states that she does not care for her special treatment, the school’s approval, or her honour student status, who she herself is opposing the terms upholding said status that she also doesn’t care about. All of her ‘potentially losing her status’ is just by a result of her own actions and self-knowledge. She is fully aware that keeping the honour student-athlete status all depends on her only and that the consequences of it taken away are the results of her actions. Not anyone else’s. Like being in third place. That all came down on her alone. Yet she spins it as if it’s unfair and that she’s being wronged. Making a commotion because she is unable to deal with her slumps that she claims is affecting her gymnastics, which is not delved upon further detail, is not worth the attention of storytelling when there is nothing off about the school staff warning her about the loss of status. There’s just no injustice. She won’t let anyone speak ill of her dream? Why when she doesn’t even care about anyone has said. Does she tell every person what she wants to be when she grows up? Nothing about her getting third place was rigged, it’s just the result of her performance that she failed to meet in the end. That’s it. And fake Kasumi’s reaction over losing her younger twin is not impactful. She brushes pass her “death” with mild sadness and grief and continues off on her merry way. Even Sumire’s fake appearance in the Palace was small. If fake Kasumi had cared about her sister more, and the situation around her, then we’d have something more interesting to go off of. To say that her awakening was just about her identity crisis doesn’t fit because that wasn’t what was presented in the dialogue or the scene leading up to her gaining a Persona. And she said that her name was Kasumi, she was still in firm belief that she was the older twin, not that she accepted that she couldn’t be her sister. If that were the case, then we, as the player, would’ve known her true identity sooner as a result because her lines would’ve given evidence. The reveal of her actual sister shows that she genuinely thought it was the other way around. Cendrillon’s words like “Rather than accept a life in cinders, you’d strive towards splendor, you know the risk. Well, if those really are the shoes you’ve chosen.” works with Yoshizawa’s, albeit rather poorly, motive for awakening. Cinderella had strived to have the freedom to do what she wanted without being held back, to be something a little more than what she really was. It aligns with Yoshizawa’s goals when as fake Kasumi: to reach the level of gymnastics on a higher level for herself, since that’s the only thing that matters to her. The student status goes with the athlete status, but she doesn’t even care for it. She wants to be a star, to be the best of her club and proceed bigger goals. Her ‘Risk’ is being stripped of her honour student status title as the result of her inability to meet the requirements of first or second place tournaments that come with the athlete terms she is consciously aware of. There’s no fowl play, no rigging, no unfairness. It’s simple understanding and consent by both parties. She knew exactly what to expect depending on the outcome.

The ‘shoes’ she’s chosen can be more than just her filling in her sister’s place. Cinderella puts no effort to be someone else, she’s just perceived by that impression from others after her fairy godmother makeover. She stays the same person as when she attended the ball and never had to put on an act. The thing about Sumire achieving Kasumi’s dream for her by being as her is obviously a major flaw, that’s not how life works. Sumire is aware that to accomplish a goal like reaching to the top, to want to put oneself in a higher position requires the person themself to truly reach that dream. She knows that that’s what Kasumi wanted, not only with her but also for herself by her own efforts. And being in Kasumi’s position was the most notable thing about what Sumire wanted, she wanted what her sister already had. But for Sumire, her inferiority complex and jealousy isn’t simply a mild thing, it’s pushed to the edge to the point where it’s so unhealthy that it consumes her and her treatment of the people in her life. For fake Kasumi, the shoes can be a representation of her ideal objective, because it’s a symbol of success like how Cinderella got her happy ending from those shoes, which she keeps to the end. So fake Kasumi’s version would be to reach gymnastics on the global scale that she’s mentioned before. Because that’s the only thing she cares about. How Sumire and fake Kasumi think are an interesting comparison. And it’s also only based on Sumire’s interpretation of her twin, but still a sort of instinctive reflection of herself. Judging by Maruki’s powers, it’s clear that what the wisher desired is a likelinesses of oneself. Unlike some of the other thieves, Sumire never wanted Kasumi’s return. And I don’t think it’s because she “accepted her death” when that can be open to a different meaning. She literally confessed when opposing Joker and Akechi that she couldn’t stand remembering the truth. Her being Kasumi is not a way to heal from grief. She could’ve viewed it as “Kasumi’s gone. I was the cause and I don’t want to remember that. I’ve always wanted to be like her, to move like her, all of it. I can be rid of my guilt and be the person I’ve always wanted to be. And I can reach the top like we had strived for. As the twin who had everything.” kind of mindset. To her, Kasumi and Sumire cannot coexist, there needs to be only one that remains. While it can be seen that her desire to be Kasumi is of survivor’s guilt and that her sister should’ve been the one who lived, it can also be for herself. She envied Kasumi to an unstable amount, and it’s implied that the two lacked communication about each other’s feelings. She wanted to be Kasumi, to be in her position as the best, to be thought of as such by her peers, and a spotlight dedicated for herself. This can be viewed as the unstable selfish side of Sumire regarding her inferiority and possible resentment towards her sister, because that also stems to jealousy. Her growing issues and struggles not only affects her, but also the people in her life. It isn’t just one defined thing that she believed Kasumi should’ve lived when she has a layer of internal issues that can’t be simplified.

To say her second awakening is about her rebelling against Maruki’s society is off. Including Maruki “changing the world”, because that is a doubtful outcome. Nyx is an exception since she’s an ancient being that’s been around for eons. She was brought up to answer humanity’s wish, death. Which has been their growing desire that’s been built up after thousands of years. And she was to bring the end to the entire world. Yaldaboath and Izanani, on the other hand, are different because their powers only stretch within Inaba and Tokyo. As far as we know anyways, Yaldaboath’s influence has only been over Tokyo. Like how the Dark Hour only happens in Tatsumi Port Island. The Dark Hour happened from the broth of the Kirijo Group’s meddling and failed experiment. Inaba fog and TV world was an experiment by Izanami who pinned P4 Protag and Adachi against each other to see who’d win. Yaldaboath made a bet with Igor over similar circumstances. Him with Akechi, Igor with Joker, and who’d be victorious with their own morals. It sets the reasoning behind the other world’s locations being in these places. It is an improbable chance that Maruki’s abilities are capable of affecting the whole world when he is a human being with a Persona and a Palace. Yaldaboath is the one with the obvious possibility of affecting the world into distortion and twisted desires, he’s a supernatural entity with inhuman abilities. Maruki’s may be amplified by his Persona with his Palace to back him, that doesn’t mean his powers are unlimited. They would reach to the extend of his own location. While Personas are capable and grow by strength, they are not invincible or superiorly godlike. Like taking over the globe. So the idea that Maruki took over the world in comparison to the true antagonists is inconsistent.

Yoshizawa had willingly agreed with his empathetic, yet misguided view that everyone can be happy. She wanted to go back to being Kasumi, not only so she’d forget her cause of death, but also to continue in a happy place of ignorance and position where she was the elder twin who had everything. Maruki’s Actualisation focuses on the deepest desire of a person becomes true. But that is not forced on everyone; aka, Joker and Akechi. Joker is easy to understand, he’s in a place where he is fine where he is, the present. He has no lost loved one, he’s free of his record, he’s made allies, he’s released the chains of fate tied to him, freed the city from corruption, he’s just in a good place where his life was already on track. Akechi has never been one to bow to false happiness and accept deceiving fantasies of having his own mother return or anything like that. It works for them beu see they are a mirror of each other that went down different roads in life. Though Sumire’s second awakening is at least a little more consistent, as she embraces her real identity, it doesn’t align that she’s rebelled against Maruki or rebelled at all. She has no will of rebellion in either awakenings, yet her both awakenings didn’t really matter. Atlus just added it for audience sake. Because deep down she’s already made that choice when returning to the real world and living as herself. Maruki’s powers weren’t forced down her throat, she wished for it and got what she had wanted like the thieves. But she already had this figured out when returning from his Palace. Her sister’s death is still fresh, her internal struggles haven’t gone away, her selfishness is still there, she accepts that Kasumi is dead but hasn’t made peace with it before her mind was blocked for fake Kasumi, something that was by her own choice.

Sumire and fake/real Kasumi had always wanted to be gymnasts as their profession before they even met Joker. And despite absences of confidants like Akechi, she was always the one with the least amount of appearances. Akechi plays an important key role for Joker, they are two similar yet different individuals who go as two sides of the same coin. Yin and Yang. Rivals. Haru only being relevant until Yoshizawa’s return is just one of many script changes by Atlus so that we’re reminded that Yoshizawa is actually supposed to be important.

It’s obvious that Kamoshida and the volleyball team were considered the ‘star’ when volleyball was the most mentioned sports in the school, with track second. And that was the case because of the Kamoshida drama. With the reputation of volleyball being under fire just as the school’s. Yet it is baffling how out of an entire school, Yoshizawa is the well known athlete when there should be absolutely way more recognized athletes that isn’t just defined by the volleyball team who do other sports. It’s a plot hole. It’s like saying she’s the only honour student in school, when Makoto and I’m sure other star students fit the slot, too.

The reason for Joker’s friends not attending the dance is a pretty lazy excuse. A plot hole. Saying that they’ve all unavailable for going home sounds so inconsistent. Especially since almost all the thieves attend the same school, including even Mishima, and with the number of them, at least one would’ve made sense to stay. And of course the dance scene is mandatory, even after a romantic event with someone else, because it’s too literally focus solely on Yoshizawa. That’s the whole reason Atlus made the dance interaction in the first place when it doesn’t happen in vanilla p5 during the festival.

The thing about me going about “Cendrillon doesn’t physically change” is the matter that Sumire, being fake Kasumi, carried the cognition that she was in full belief that she was someone else with a different conscience mindset. Even if Sumire’s mind may have been repressed and kept as a form of subconscious, what fake Kasumi believed in was real to her. As I’ve stated previously, fake Kasumi truly thought that she was the older twin until the reveal. Persona; the physical representation of a psyche, leaves some gaps. Because things like identity crisis, amnesia and other similar situations can affect and influence a person’s psyche greatly. It’s about knowing yourself, knowing who you are and what you stand for and stand by. Personas are foreshadowings and representations of the characters’ stories. They don’t change because the stories fill out all the way to the end.

Another thing, Cendrillon doesn’t fight, period. Not for others, not for a cause, not even for herself. Carmen and Milady are not the same as the fairytale damsel. Also because they are not damsels, they’re femme fatale oriented characters who do more in their stories. They’re fighters, in personality wise and mentally. They do not let men or anyone walk all over them. Carmen’s death goes with the lines that she will always be free, tied down by no one. She’d rather choose to die than be bounded in life. While Milady, made as an antagonist with no remorse for her actions, is executed for her crimes. The two women share many traits like deceit, sneakiness, cleverness, living their lives by their own rules with no regrets, even with the consequences. Cinderella can hardly be considered a Trickster. When, as I’ve mentioned before, aside from her fairy godmother makeover, she does not change in any way apart from her appearance. She didn’t even try to trick anyone when no body but her stepfamily would recognize her, and yet the stepfamily don’t even interact with her at the ball. The only characters (excluding animal friends depending on what version) that do anything in the whole story, are the prince and fairy godmother. The prince just lets her identity slip by him because of physical attraction and “love at first sight”. He’s the reason for how Cinderella ends turns out in her life, he made the decision to test every woman am with the glass slipper and put it into action. That’s really the glory of the slippers; her doing nothing and him doing something by hormonal attraction by first meeting. She can hardly even try to lie because he doesn’t bother getting to know her enough like a rational person when he immediately sees her and instantly decides she’s the one to marry after a dance and a conversation, which wouldn’t be much from a first meeting. She looks just like everyone else at the ball, so of course nobody would notice. This was all the fairy godmother’s doing in the first place.

Remember, Persona 5’s whole theme is about Tricksters, rebellion, and characters who stand by free will. That’s the entire point of the game’s story and symbolism. It’s Persona, all the games in the series have a theme with Personas basing off them.

The romance thing with Haru isn’t really anything new. In vanilla p5, Atlus pushes Joker and Makoto more as a couple, and they even had to act like one for Eiko, and have scenes in Futaba and Sae’s Palaces, or the other girls in a more mild way. But in Royal, it is so blatant that they changed things to ship Yoshizawa instead since she’s the poster girl. Okay

How does getting her father’s glasses have Sumire making her own choice when she was actually Kasumi? Her mindset was from her cognition when that event happened. It wasn’t actually her being herself. Her making her own choice can be the case for any scenario, but one that she’s always made was letting real Kasumi do what she wants. That was a choice. They’re twins, supposedly meant to be close, so she’d had to let her sister make choices for her when she could’ve spoken up about it at any point. And her being ready to leave the responsibility up to Joker can just be seen as consideration since he came all this way for a simple task. That’s normal for politeness and matters. It’s not that significant.

Her friendship with Maruki is normal, it’s not abnormal. But Maruki gives small amounts of manipulation and gaslighting to have her and everyone else under his powers. Maruki, you’re a considerate guy and all, but please NEVER counsel anyone ever again. To say that he’s “just that good of a therapist” by getting her all better is, ludicrous. How does this obvious shift of transition from her turning into fake Kasumi a sign that he’s a amazing at counseling when EVERYONE can see that she’s masquerading as her sister. The school knows this, her club, her teachers, her trainer, for the love of god her parents. You’ve also mentioned this that they do. She even vocally calls herself Kasumi and carries her sister’s ID. It’s clear to everyone, minus Joker and maybe others who don’t attend Shujin, that she is not fine. It’s such a weird contradiction that the people in her life are fully aware that she’s pretending to be her sister and yet act like that’s a completely normal thing when it’s her cognition, by the power of Maruki, that’s actually being affected. I feel like I’m repeating my points again, but parading around as a deceased person who has been in your life, is not how a person healthily recovers and heals from loss. That is not natural or normal. People should know that! Especially her parents! It doesn’t make any sense why it’s going this route other than another plot hole that Atlus made as an excuse so Joker wouldn’t find out about her identity sooner. It’s absurd.

I’ve mentioned the effect of her student status in the other points I’ve made a few times. It’s not about the gossip, the tests, skipping classes when she does not care for any of that unless it involves her personal goals of gymnastics. Otherwise, she doesn’t care for it at all. And I also talked about her processing of her sister’s death.

Which of her stalkings? Because Morgana did not even know about both these cases. Her confessing to tailing them thieves left just as much of shock to him as Futaba and Joker. The same for when she pops up in Maruki’s Palace on her own.

Joker has been the only person to see the blue butterfly. He’s a wildcard, he has the fool arcana, he’s contracted to the velvet room. Of course he can see it. Morgana can as well because he was created by Igor. Velvet room attendants can alter their appearances based off the other games. They are capable of turning invisible to the human eye when going into the human world or be apparent. But they are always viable to their guests. The thieves’ reason for being in the velvet room in the first place was because of Yaldoboath, the false god took them to repress their strive for justice and tried to manipulate Joker for a deal because he cheated on his bet with Igor and infiltrated the velvet room so he’d win. Impersonating Igor and splitting Lavenza so she wouldn’t recognize his true identity. None of that was Igor or Lavenza’s doing. It’s a similar scenario to P3’s the answer. Where it was that SEES reached their conclusion and conviction and were able to follow Aigis to the velvet room, just like the thieves when they reach their resolve and are able to leave their cells. Lavenza even stays in the nurse’s office as Joker recruits everyone to meet, but not all of them appear at once. The entrances to the velvet room are all in various locations between the real world and the supernatural. Public places that can by stumbled upon mind you. And nobody in SEES, Investigation Team, or the Phantom Thieves have been able to actually see the entrance. The Persona-Users. They just think the leaders are lost in thought or daydreaming. And as I’ve stated before, the interaction of the thieves being in the velvet room wasn’t even by the residents’ choice because of Yaldaboath. He infiltrated the velvet room.

The Phantom Thieves were put as a public symbol of inspiration for society to solve their own problems if they could help it. Of course everyone knows that the thieves can’t fix everything and make everyone hunky dory. Maruki’s rules aren’t necessarily by his rules, as the power of his actualisation depends on the person he can affect if they have a wish so deep, like bringing back the dead. It feels like Yoshizawa undermines the meaning of solving one’s own problems when there are times solving things on your own just isn’t enough.

That’s the thing with Sumire on the Marinette similarities. They get no consequences from the result of their actions, it’s excused and passed off, or the repercussions are light. While Sumire gets self confidence, no matter the little amount of time it happened, she goes back to being the same character as we saw her in the beginning. And wardrobe and hair are a big part of visual representation on characters. Her hair goes back into a ponytail with the red bow, and her glasses are gone. She looks exactly the same as when Joker first meets her in the ending. Everything’s the same. Just like her thief attire where she had truly sought for herself to be her sister. There’s nothing that differentiates them apart. Regarding Marinette, most of my opinions over her are similar to Youtuber Cyrus the Great’s analysis videos on the show if you’re curious. He’s pretty detailed and makes interesting notes about her and the cast.

your thoughts on sumire definitely aren't wrong, but i personally see her as "a bad person pretending to be good." the fanservice, x joker, and being shoehorned into the plot are basically all a given, considering basically all the girls get the first two, and she wasn't in vanilla so ofc she's gonna be shoehorned in royal.

as for sumire herself, her good-girl waifu act is just that: an act. she's meant to come off as a one dimensional waifu to hide her deeper, more toxic traits.

from the first cutscene where we see her true self, it's implied sumire was attempting suicide before kasumi saved her. and her reaction to this? to wish she was kasumi, to take kasumi's successes as her own. and when this doesn't work, she can't compare to kasumi's natural charm, sumire's perfect persona cracks.

and once maruki gains more power, to where he can even ressurect wakaba, okumura, and akechi, sumire still wishes to be kasumi. her desires don't change to bringing kasumi back like the other three. because sumire psychologically cannot stand to live as her inadequate, depressed, talentless self, she has to take kasumi's successes as her own. to her, there's no way "sumire" and "kasumi" can co-exist.

in this way, sumire is an extremely morbid character, disguised as a basic waifu. and the icing on the cake is one of her battle quotes: "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger."

For context, this a past comment regarding my character opinions post here that I finally decided to include here:

My Rants on Kasumi Yoshizawa + 1 & 2

Thanks for the reply, Anon. I mean, I don’t think Sumire was actually attempting suicide. She got overwhelmed with her frustrations and wanted to get away from the source of them, which is Kasumi, so she ran from her and didn’t look where she was even going. As nice as it is to get responses and feedback, I DO NOT want to relive getting the hate comments from this character’s cult for expressing my thoughts freely. Please be reasonable when you respond to posts and think before firing hate onto others. If you don’t like these posts I have then it’s fine to ignore and not care, it’s not important.

i also agree with your opinion. at first she's kinda cool, i liked the idea of her guilt and thus taking her identity due to the fact she feels that her sister should be the one who's alive. but watching her play out throughout the game was kinda.. meh? everything abt her feels so forced to me. like maruki was also a new character, but he felt more natural. it was pretty obvious that one of the reasons she was there was to be the waifu bait.

tldr: she was kinda cool at first, but was kinda disappointing. 5/10. could be executed better.

For context, this a past comment regarding my character opinions post here that I finally decided to include here:

My Rants on Kasumi Yoshizawa + 1 & 2

Thanks for the reply, Anon. As nice as it is to get responses and feedback, I DO NOT want to relive getting the hate comments from this character’s cult for expressing my thoughts freely. Please be reasonable when you respond to posts and think before firing hate onto others. If you don’t like these posts I have then it’s fine to ignore and not care, it’s not important.

not trying to be a dick but if all of your sumire thoughts are just character hate like, what exactly possesses you to put it in the all the main fandom tags as well as the character tag. like, if you don't want to get hate from her "cult" why are you putting your rants in the tags they use. puzzling behaviour.

(I’m not adding Keep Reading on this)

Okay, dear Anon, let me answer this “puzzling behaviour” you think that is.

This is literally my RIGHT as freedom of speech and that just BECAUSE I’M MAKING AN OPINION, it’s labeled as hate. And I CAN hate a character all I want because that’s my right to think and choose and feel to do so. Why do I always have to keep stating this?

My thoughts on Sumire are everything I’ve considered on how her role and character doesn’t fit the story and point she is supposedly supposed to make from the writers. That’s MY take. So take it or leave it. I don’t dislike her for NOTHING!! I’m not throwing this crap for shits and giggles. I have reasons. My rant posts are my reasons. What I’m seeing here is you being incredibly biased and narrow-minded.

And they have had debates by others. Do you know how lengthy these were to read and respond back? They didn’t start shit but rather offered polite opinions of their own. The reactions to these things were exactly what I expected and something I debated about even posting that in the first place because I knew people were going spew pointless hater talk bullcrap at me. And it’s tiring. Especially about a character that’s worshipped so highly, it makes anything you say against them seem controversial.

And these tags are there because it’s about them? What’s hard to understand that while I knew I was bringing myself attention for adding these tags, I did so on the grounds of seeing anyone else thinking similar things or offering something different instead of collecting tumbleweeds waiting for anyone to stumble across my posts. I had said before that if anyone could even sway me on this, they could try. But after all this time I can’t be bothered to give a shit at the end of the day on a fictional character and this hate judgement you’re throwing me with hypocrisy. Blind level of understanding. And that’s not what my rants were at all.

If you can’t even make a counterpoint to my argument, much less talk about why I’m such a hater for my personal thoughts, even with a series of reasons to explain why, then your response here has no purpose.

I am TIRED of having to repeat myself over this pettiness and repetitive song and dance calling me a hater with hate. I can say whatever I want about whatever I want. Everyone’s always going to think differently and be judgy about them but nobody needs permission to think differently. Have a nice day, Anon.

I’m going to say this bluntly in regards of Kasumi/Sumire: Yes, she’s a character that the audience relate to, such as her depressive slumps, the emotional grudge against her twin sister. But with that said, her story doesn’t connect with the themes of Persona 5 which is why her character sucks. From her unsympathetic reasoning for her Persona awakening, to how everyone around her reacts to her presence, she feels more like an unused character for Persona 4. Instead of filling in the holes within Persona vanilla, Altus just created a lifeless poster girl with themes that don’t connect with Persona 5.

It’s to the point where Sophia, an artificial intelligence from a spinoff game, manages to stay in tune with the theme of rebellion.(Plus Kasumi feels like an Oc made by Persona fan who has a hard on for Joker)

[ I AM NO LONGER ACCEPTING INBOX RESPONSES ABOUT THIS MATTER ]

Final comment regarding my character opinions post here that I finally decided to include here:

My Rants on Kasumi Yoshizawa + 1 & 2

I appreciate another opinion, Anon. But I will not take anymore replies on this. My inbox is for requests, questions, and harmless chats. This blog is dedicated to writing, and sometimes art if I plan on it. Please respect that.

These comments are only posted to publicly showcase anonymous responses and not to hurt anyone.