Persona 5 Violet - Tumblr Posts
My Rants: Honest Opinions
My Problem With KaSumi|re Yoshizawa/Violet
A/N: If you just love to make hate messages over personal thoughts over what someone thinks and are willing to accept the character that is being written about, who you don’t even know, on their posts just because of it then what’s even the point of having a matter of honest opinions anyways?
Fandom(s): Persona 5: Royal
Summary: Yoshizawa rubbed me off the wrong way since the moment I saw her. I immediately got the sense of ‘Market Seller Waifu For Increase In Sales For Royal’ after seeing her unoriginal thief getup. And I’m unapologetic to admit that she’s my LEAST favourite character despite the amount of positive reviews she’s had after Persona 5 Royal’s release and the hate attacks on anyone who thinks differently. She really does have potential. And I couldn’t stop thinking about it after the Atlus announcement for Xbox and PC. Then I figured, I thought to finally expel these annoying thoughts in order to release my pent up frustration and understanding of her away and my perspective changing, not a lot, but changing somewhat.
So here’s why.
Warnings: Spoilers for Persona 5: Royal.
My Conversations with Others Regarding This Topic (think of it like extensions from this post): 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
Main Masterlist
Or as I call her: the tropey Doormat Kohai.
I know. I put her in my story but things will be different as the chapters progress. I am actually interested in how her character adds to the game’s story, but it really only happens for Third Semester. But how Atlus did her involvement feels like wasted potential. A rewrite would help, I think.
The only time she really does anything in the real world is defend and help Joker when he is arrested, but ALL his confidants do that! They’re supposed to do those things after he deepens his bonds to max level, there is nothing new or unique about it with her!
A side note: I find it humorous that crossovers adding Yoshizawa just have to be emphasized with Royal and not simply Persona 5 even though Royal is Persona 5 in general, or I suppose to emphasize update.
Her very presence is a shoehorn. Her appearances never really feels natural. She just pops in and out whenever she wants. I would’ve honestly forgotten her if it wasn’t for Third Semester.
Her looks are an uncreative and reusable mix of FeMC, Mitsuru, Yuko and from P3.
Overly attached to Joker because he’s pretty much the only person she wants to revolve around in her life. She hardly interacts or befriends anyone else. Her gymnastics club members, classmates, other schoolmates, her parents who barely show relevance to her personally, other honour students (there’s no way in hell she’s the only one), and the thieves. As Kasumi, for someone who acts like an extroverted socialite it doesn’t really make sense as to why she doesn’t. Which might be because any acquaintance feels off about her because of her cognition that they don’t talk to her but I don’t get how pretty much anyone doesn’t even have a simple conversation with her. But it’s probably just a front for her Sumire side. But if she truly wanted to be everything Kasumi was, then having that socialite behaviour would’ve made sense. Kasumi’s extrovert personality is the main point about what it means to imitate her. Her mentality was ALL about her obsession with Kasumi, before and after her death. The way her brain works is weird with Maruki’s mind powers.
And about the thieves; they, for some reason, blindly love her so much after only meeting, like, twice in the real world. They don’t know her as much and have rarely interacted or hung out outside the Metaverse. Not as much or as close to as Joker. She kind of bypasses them.
She does not contribute anything to the main plot except for 3rd Semester. Which is at the end of the game. Her first entrance to “save” Joker in Sae’s Palace was wasteful. He’s, not counting Mona, the most experienced fighter out of all the thieves. Joker did not need her help in any way shape or form. P5 vanilla proves that, he didn’t need any of the other thieves as backup when he was evading the Shadows. He’s the freaking main character! Joker’s supposed to have the spotlight for the player. She even said it herself that she’s not a member of the Phantom Thieves so she has no right to interfere, and interferes anyway. It’s just a lazy introduction to a new character. Why is her All-Out Attack the first we even see?? And that gives the thieves a reason to have her for their “Hey, We Saved The World From Corruption By Taking Down a False God” party? She didn’t even help in the fight with Yaldabaoth. So I could hardly count her as a member.
KaSumi/re’s social link for the first couple of ranks go the SAME route. You do a family friendly activity, she falls into her so called “slump”, you cheer her up, she promises to work harder than ever, and the cycle repeats five times to the point where it’s predictable and easy to gain her rank up. How is that interesting? She phrases her slump like it’s a small thing that she doesn’t know the cause for, hindering her performances and believing that it’s a lack of confidence.
There was nothing off about her being Kasumi in the first place that led to the indication that she wasn’t actually Kasumi. Her attitude stays the same, perky, polite, overly positive, being an airhead (that goes for Sumire too. Seriously, how does one take crappy code names as Appetite and Leotard into actual consideration? How do unused scenes like Akechi suspecting her as the Palace Ruler because of her association with said Palace being about one who craves attention and just let it slip by her?) the foreshadowing monologue could just be something to add for her backstory if a player didn’t think about it much. Nothing really showed that anything was wrong in her happy go lucky world aside from the few interactions she has with Maruki. Which still hardly makes a difference. Their connection feels loose. Though it didn’t matter if her reveal would’ve happened or not, Sumire just goes back to being the SAME person as when she first started in the true ending. What were all those 120 hours of progress for..?!
Morgana wanting to recruit her then changing his mind because of Shido makes me deadpan. The thieves faced a perverted and abusive P.E. teacher, a manipulative and gaslighting artist, the freaking mafia, and a selfish and money-hungry CEO father! Everyone had their own lives on the line each! What makes Yoshizawa’s any different..?! I just don’t get it. Didn’t that cat say that powers in numbers is a good thing after recruiting Ann? That whole conversation after Maruki’s Palace was pointless, because it meant nothing for the main story after she decides to want to join and is turned down.
Her reason for awakening is weak and contradictory. Because, when voices of people who talk poorly of her, her motivation for awakening is that they spoke down on the dream she shares with her sister. That is not a strong and a good enough reason to even summon a Persona. This goes completely against P5’s themes and it doesn’t work. KaSumi/re never even cared about their opinions anyways, she even vocalizes this as a statement and brushes off them off all the time. And her potentially losing her honour student status was her own fault. Even with her second awakening being more meaningful, it still doesn’t justify having a “Spirit of Rebellion”. She could’ve done that without having her “true awakening” and it still would’ve worked. It didn’t make sense for her to even have a Persona when she became a scatterbrain for almost a year. It doesn’t add up, she committed to being Kasumi, that’s against who she actually is. P3 is facing mortality, P4 is facing the truth, P5 is facing against an unjust society, impacting them personally that it becomes a motivation for courage. Everyone in SEES, Investigation team, and the main Phantom thief crew follow these guidelines, I don’t understand why the scenario had to be changed.
Her thief outfit is nothing but a market seller for Royal. Atlus even admits it in their interviews. The only symbolism it has is that she admires Joker so much and sees him as a spitting image of rebellion that she replicates her attire to his, including keeping her Kasumi ponytail. Even Atlus admits this in their interviews that her outfit was just a market seller! The only thing original about it is the leotard because she’s a gymnast. And when she finally awakens as Sumire (though not really), her outfit stays the same, hair the same, Persona the same. There is no visible representation of Sumire showcasing individuality that separates her from Kasumi/re. Not even a small one. Which is a clue to how she goes back to looking the same as when she was in the beginning. Character development what now? Violet is the same way, Kasumi with just a mask on.
She got to have a magical girl/sailor moon transformation for what? Fan service. Which doesn’t fit with the game’s themes and aesthetics whatsoever but her Persona is Cinderella so sure, why the heck not? (sarcasm) Heck, if that were the case then the thieves should’ve gotten the same treatment. The idea of watching Ryuji do a spin is too amusing for me. Yusuke could pull it off given his theatrical eccentric side.
Black just doesn’t seem like Yoshizawa’s colour palette. There’s no reason for wearing black when the only time she does wear it is her Shujin blazer and that’s it.Gymnasts don’t really wear plain black either; it’s usually with a flashy design that comes with dark and light colours, or one with a simpler look. Her leotard being plain black is too… simple? Purple works since she actually wore that for her gymnastics. Everyone somehow loves the inaccuracy of her in a sleeveless leotard that showcase an exaggerated body that isn’t her at all, they seem to like using her just for their perverse entertainment, (then again pretty much every female fictional character is like that so this isn’t anything new or a big deal anymore, I don’t know, I can’t be bothered to give a crap knowing that the media does whatever it wants), when gymnasts always wear sleeves. And the internet loves to debauch her for the most dull and impractical suit in Persona, a great advertisement to promote the game. This is just a notice I have over her costume.
Her showtime is weird. (Plus, why can’t Joker have a showtime that gives him the spotlight?) So she jumps into his arms for a spin as he shoots down enemies, tosses her to make this strange performance with her deceased sister (does that mean she’s actually touching air and Kasumi is all in her head?), and pulls Joker to twirl her into a dip. Just how deprived of his attention are you? Did Nintendo really have to give us the unnecessarily pointless scene of Yoshizawa’s dancing and her showtime as part of P5’s trailer of branching out to other consoles? Akechi’s showtime clip hardly balances that out considering it was short and at the end.
What was the whole point of that ridiculous dance cutscene of her and Joker? A shoehorn by Atlus as ship bait between the true star of the game and an in-and-out character. Why weren’t any of the Shujin students of the thieves there? Or Mishima? We just get a fancy flashy dance animated cutscene purely showing off Sumire. Maybe I missed the reason.
Sumire’s backstory is just a recycle from the other girls’ story arcs. Especially Lavenza, who goes on to have an identity crisis herself where she is split into TWINS. I find that no body that I’ve seen has mentioned this. As a standpoint, we didn’t need another twin story AGAIN.
Her connection to Cendrillon is off and strange. Which is ironic since she’s actually the jealous sister. All the stories of Cinderella have many things in common: she’s a waif, she is looked down on by her household, verbally abused, put into forced labour, shown to be a genuine person, and is saved by a man who solves all her problems. All these bad things in Cinderella’s life happens TO her out of jealousy, spite, and cruelty. Sumire goes through none of that. She has a sister who does care about her, and parents that care about her, too. There is no ill mistreatment anywhere done TO her from when she was Sumire before Shujin. But I guess it’s a minor thing where she’s like Cinderella’s stepsisters. The thing she said about Kasumi making the decisions for her, like her clothes, is because Sumire lets her. She could’ve said anything at anytime and Kasumi would’ve listened. Sure, she is implied to be overbearing who couldn’t read between the lines. But they’re siblings! Twins for crying out loud! They would’ve spent everything together knowing each other’s quirks, habits, and flaws. Yet Sumire puts the image that Kasumi is perfect in every way (Mary Sue) when she’s spent years learning all about her twin. Sumire’s a Mary Sue for the fact that everything she does or doesn’t do is positively received no matter the situation. There’s no consequence or anything. There’s also the fact that there doesn’t seem to be any ground reason as to why Sumire has an inferiority complex over her sister other than that Kasumi is considered the better gymnast. They trained the same but Kasumi came out on top. Perhaps that could be the reason for her lack of confidence as Sumire. Depression can happen to anyone, of course, but her large amount of jealousy of Kasumi feels kinda off in the writing aspect. It’s ALL over her sister more so than herself. And since we only get to see Real Kasumi once, ONCE, we don’t know the dynamics of their relationship. She and Cendrillon share a few things: they go to a ball pretending to be someone else, a chance to have their lives be what they want, and is saved by a man who solves all their problems. Joker saves her by revealing the truth of her identity, and her coming back as Sumire after almost a year of being brainwashed. Though the same can be applied to Maruki as she sort of consented to the identity crisis, and tried to stop Joker from undoing so. That part’s understandable, don’t get me wrong. But what, after a short timespan when the thieves rescue her she figures herself out and then suddenly accepts Kasumi’s death with a big ole speech? Sure, she talks about it with Joker, and while it’s nice to have someone to talk to about these things, that doesn’t magically solve all of a person’s problems in one fell swoop. Sumire should’ve gone back to therapy with an actual therapist, and talked honestly to her parents about her mental problems and sort and heal from the burdens she’s carried. She doesn’t struggle much from being in her own skin again. Joker isn’t the center of her existence! She feels like an imaginary friend from all the times she’s around Joker and no one else. To me, her interactions with the thieves happens more in the Metaverse. Having Cendrillon as her Persona just feels off in some ways, considering that her Persona doesn’t change after reclaiming herself as Sumire.
I’m sorry (not really), but saying Joker is her ‘Prince Charming’ does not really fit. It demeans Joker’s story and his character. He’s a rebel, he’s forced to live in a rough situation out of his control, he’s had to play the role of not standing out, be invisible and blend in, control his own behaviour and actions in public. But we all know Joker does not have a ‘princely’ personality. More so the opposite. He hides his real feelings under a facade in most cases. He’s pictured as her ‘Prince’ because he’s pretty much the only person who interacts with her, who’s there, who basically solved all her problems for her. Which is why she ‘falls in love’ with him. The thing I’ve never liked in the Third Semester is how little everyone cared for Joker when they lived the illusions of perfect lives. It was only because they went through sufferings and hardships that they depended on him so much, but it changes in reverse after everything he did for them. Which is just so damn shallow! What does that say about who they really are? Joker deserved more that! He’s not a crutch! Sumire is no different either. She’s the same circle we’ve always known. Joker is literally depicted as a sort of ‘antihero’, given the whole Phantom Thief role, Arsene, the strive for rebelling, unburdened, helping. But he isn’t prim proper, or a complete empty shell who is flat/static who is Mr. Perfect that saves the day. There’s layers to it all, and it’s a journey getting to where he is. That in spite of his difficult circumstance, he thrives. With friends, supporting himself financially, helping others not just because it’s right but because he knows better than anyone what it means to be helpless. He’s sarcastic, cheeky, quiet, doesn’t always like to follow the rules (like when Sojiro tells him to keep his head down, turn a blind eye, not cause trouble) and it would actually make sense that he isn’t a big fan of hierarchies and the system of society (the cons and darker aspects), especially when abuse, power play, gaslighting, etc are involved. Definitely not the type who does duty and follows the structure he’s surrounded by.
When the game FINALLY reveals what her deal is, I’ve already clocked out, exited, lost interest in her reused backstory that the element of surprise failed. To have to go through the main plot (the important part) of the entire game, we had to reach the end with Third Semester to get her reason for being meaningful, to the end, just leaves everything dry. We could’ve gotten to know more about how Maruki’s powers work and what other patients he might have affected. Because is it really believable that he only inflicted Yoshizawa throughout the time he had gotten his Persona? Wouldn’t he get more Shujin patients outside the main crew? Maybe not Shujin?
Isn’t it part of her wish that she wanted to become Kasumi so much that she found an opportunity to do so deep down? To fill her sister’s dream for her feels kinda off and complicated regarding her cognition is only that of how she sees herself versus how others see her. All this seems to reveal just how obsessed Sumire is about Kasumi. And her relationship with her sister doesn’t show except for the one clip where real Kasumi appears. We can only go off of what Sumire says. For example: Valentine’s Day, White Day, real ending, she goes back to her default Kasumi self. I’ve never seen a character have such a slow burn-to-rushed progress to then digress it all.
Like, isn’t it the fact that she became Kasumi and made herself be the one that died just a cycle of what happened but reverse?? If Sumire is the supposed dead one then that means as Kasumi she didn’t blame herself because she’s happy as her sister and the grief she showed throughout the most part of her social link was fake. She got what she wanted so she didn’t feel guilty or saddened about the death? What the hell? She just puts herself back where she started, how did that dodge anything?! And it’s not even because of Maruki! She’s doing this with full awareness and freely choosing to do so. Absolute ridiculousness.
She’s in loves with Joker no matter what you do. It’s like she doesn’t know what platonic relationships are. It’s like spending time with a guy has to mean romance. Then again, any person but Joker doesn’t exist to her. And who did you love him as exactly, Sumire? Kasumi or you? Because Joker has only ever known Kasumi. To him he’s only just met you. It makes me appreciate Aigis, Rise, and Marie more because they were nothing compared to the level of shoehorning Yoshizawa brings. She’s basically passing her obsession with Kasumi to Joker instead. Though this time with a sort of idealistic infatuation and expectations, but much less extreme to how she is with her twin. For crying out loud Sumire barely hits the peak of actual maturity. She just turned fifteen a month before the actual game starts, a first year who is still growing out of her kid phase. Top that with her fragile mental struggles that she has hardly had time to heal from, her goals which are the only thing she cares about, how was it appropriate to date her? So what if Joker is at least a year older, she doesn’t have full understanding in what it means to be in a romantic relationship with someone, serious and committed with her mentality; much less ready for it. At least Marie interacts with everyone and has that become a factor in her growth.
KaSumi/re seems to have the habit of being an overbearing airhead. Everything flies passed her unless it’s about herself. Makes sense for the 10% amount of times she shows up in the game. Because she’s busy with competitions? So is everyone else, but they make the goddamn time to actually BE important and involved, we can only take her word off it and she’d just be gone for a period of time.
Whether it’s Kasumi or Sumire, they’re stalkers regardless. Her following the thieves into Sae’s Palace because she “felt something big was going to happen” is such a poor excuse. What, does everything Joker does have to apply to you? Just how long did you wait in the Palace? Because you were worried about him and followed even though he’s always respected your boundaries and doesn’t step out of line on your privacy? Did you have anything to eat? Creep. Her stalking the team in the nurse’s office out of no where was weird. How long have you been tailing them, huh? How did you conveniently find out about their meeting? Lavenza’s butterfly form was only a sight Joker picked up on while she was invisible to everyone else. Morgana can’t count because he was created by Igor, so of course he could see her. And Lavenza stays in the nurse’s office while Joker gathers everyone to meet. It’s like the same situation for the other Velvet Room Attendants, they can have this sort of invisibility projected in the outside world where bystanders can’t see them except their guests or be visible and interact with people. Especially the locations of the Velvet Room, where only the guests can see the entrance and the attendant. The thieves or any of the teams can’t see the glowing blue door or them either in the other world like Tartarus and the Metaverse. They only think that the leaders are zoning out in reality. So the idea that she knew to follow Joker because she saw Lavenza is confusing.
Why does her being skinny while eating a lot matter so much to everyone that it has to be brought up all the time? She’s an athlete, we get it. It’s part of her ‘honour student status’. Ryuji is no different! He’s an athlete for track for track and field! This trope is used so much for every time she eats something. Past Persona games didn’t do this and be so absorbed in a side character’s trait.
All Kasumi cares about in this big wide world is gymnastics and nothing else. Sumire’s goal is not too different either. Yet her growth for betterment feels too short for someone who had an identity crisis for almost a year. Was she completely conscious for her cognition? Was acting as Kasumi a recollection as she adjusted back to being herself? Did she forget who she was deep down until the reveal? Did loss hit differently over what she feels between herself and Kasumi? It makes me curious over the fuctions of Maruki’s powers, not enough answers.
KaSumi/re has hardly any stakes as a phantom thief. She doesn’t even have a reason to join their cause! She just joins as a kind gesture and because of Maruki. She didn’t even agree with them that time she met up with Joker and Akechi. It makes sense that she’d be there for Maruki but is a temporary member until they defeat him.
How she got the MetaNav makes no goddamn sense. Because Yaldaboath is the one who gave Joker and Akechi access, and others (such as the Thieves) being in close proximity to either of them would cause them to get the app as well. But KaSumi/re can break that rule? It goes against the very functions the game has made. Like seriously?
Vanadis may be more original and suited to her compared to Cendrillon from what I’ve heard, but it’s amazing how even deep down as Sumire, she still copies from Joker instead of actually being individualistic. Especially for an Ultimate Persona. Like, seriously, black and red colour palette? Bird wings hanging from the lower back? Sounds way too familiar to another Persona we know well. Vanadis is supposed to be a goddess, why the hell does she look like a demon? It says a lot about her either as Kasumi or Sumire. You try so hard, Atlus. You really do. It honestly surprised me to see these shoehorns.
When she said that only the person has to be the one to change their situation, she is literally undermining what happened with the cases of Kamoshida, Madarame, Kaneshiro, Shiro. Their victims were people who couldn’t stand up to them because they were powerless with hardly much choice. Joker, Shiho, Mishima, Ann, Yusuke, etc. There’s nothing wrong with help and inspiration. Sumire gets that herself technically, and that’s fine, but that just makes her a hypocrite. But I guess I’m taking her words as being that change has to be done alone so that might be on me.
Joker, Violet, and Crow are a bizarre team. Her and Crow don’t even have anything in common for their dynamic. Of course Joker and Akechi would know what’s going on, but for Kasumi it just feels different for me. She’s just there for curiosity. Everyone has been affected by Maruki, and she has the longest, so it doesn’t feel right for her to be there.
Thank gods she isn’t in Strikers, all she’d be was an out of place extra. She’s not even mentioned in Strikers, her only appearance in the Persona universe is literally just Royal. Unlike Marie who has made multiple appearances. And as I’ve phrased before, she has no motive to even be one of them. Royal’s true ending proves that when she isn’t in the van with the thieves. Her only concern was Maruki. Her life is back in order and she’s thriving for herself. And that’s fine, I don’t really have a problem with that. It just makes me wonder how much of an afterthought Atlus made her after Royal was finished. Whether or not she’d be in the game wouldn’t have made a difference for the whole plot but her own story. Atlus just seems to fail in fulfilling that entirely.
Out of all the three new additions I felt like Jose had the least amount of time and attention. And for me, personally, I would’ve liked to see more of him and his story, you know? Because he’s so mysterious and gives off similar vibes to the Velvet Room Attendants but we don’t get to know more about his origins. In Royal he’s just there to provide. It’s only a theory that he’s associated with Philemon like the attendants are with Igor but there’s not a whole lot of evidence to link that connection; since Philemon hasn’t made a real appearance in years. It’s a shame we don’t get more Persona 1 and 2 or a new remake or something. But with the age gap in the Persona timeline it’s understandable.
Part of me was disappointed that Persona 5 vanilla wasn’t coming to Switch so that I could avoid the pain of dealing with Yoshizawa for certain moments. But not entirely. At least there’s 3 and 4 to look forward to.
But hey, if you can make reasonable opinions over this then I’ll respect that, and maybe my thoughts of her will be persuaded. Unless you want to be an asshole about free will of opinions and open mindedness then please leave this post now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It’s not like this post is a matter of life or death that demands bitchy responses. I draw the line on hate over just having an honest opinion different from others. Especially with any fans of any fanbase, that take things unnecessarily too far. Your love for this character doesn’t give you the right to attack me when I’m only pointing out what I’ve noticed about her and how my personal perspective is affected by those points. And as I’ve stated, I am open to seeing her in a different light, given reasonable and understandable viewpoints without the hostility.
I may continue making these points further. I just had to get this off my chest, even if her fans blast me for my personal opinions that have obvious pointers. If you don’t like it, then you don’t have to see it without replying with hateful words and rude comments towards me and my post.
ur opinion abt violet is pretty based ngl 😭 she also striked me off as an iffy or obviously 'waifu' character
Thank you for a kindly worded opinion. I felt like I had to personally be prepared for any moment of an online cyber attack of toxic fans going crazy at me for these honest thoughts the moment I decided to post my rant. And I thought it would be a unique ice breaker for seeming like a distant-silent-writer-with-a-writer-blog to others.
I was even hesitant on doing so because of it, knowing that the Persona fan base is no different from any others, fan bases all have their meaner sides. But the more reasons I found out about her, and I found a lot, it just wouldn’t leave my head whenever I saw even a mention of her in Persona fan content. And with Persona coming to Xbox, PC, and Switch, I just felt like I had to let it out or it’d give me a headache. It made me wonder why people love her so much when she has all these things about her that clash. It’s not like they were secrets. They’re literally in front of your face. I just had to let these opinions out and see if there was anyone at all who’d thought the same and I wasn’t alone thinking differently.
Can I give my two cents on Yoshizawa? Coming from someone that just finished Royal and also likes Aigis and Rise (and can understand why people hate her as well, it takes time to warm up to her). Sorry, english isn't my first language. This isn't also a hate message, just giving my honest opinion.
As someone who always struggled with depression and self steem issues, I really liked Sumire's portrayal and her wishing to be another person (in this case, her "better" twin).
I'll first adress the points in which I agree with you. First, her clothes. You're right, she shouldn't wear black clothes. I think, as she had her true awekening, her clothes could change and have similar colors as her third awakening.
Ok, back to the arguments. I shall tackle them in order.
The only time she helps Joker in the real world is to get him out of jail. - I could say the same about the other confidants. Only Ryuji stuck up to him against Kamoshida, and Shido on the elevator scene (and you can also defend him back if you have enough guts).
Her appearances never feel normal. - I played Vanilla before, so I knew whenever a new scene was popping up with Sumire, Akechi and Maruki. Maybe you think they're shoehorned because you already know she's a new character? Like, that feeling that "oh she wasn't here before".
Overly attached to Joker. - Think about it this way. She just lost her sister (in her mind, Kasumi lost Sumire). And while she behaved as Kasumi, everyone knew who she really was. Talking to her was awkward and like walking on eggshells. Joker, because he didn't know about this situation, he acted normal around her and even helped with her depressive episodes. So, she respected him. Sometimes we need this person to remind us that it's okay to have doubts but we can't let them win. But you said it, she ACTS like a extroverted socialite. She isn't one.
The thieves love her and she ignores them. - Hm... no? She respects all of them equally, specially Futaba and Mona. I do think she least interacted with Yusuke and Ann, but she and Ryuji did talk as well (but well it's Ryuji).
She does not contribute to the plot until the 3rd semester. - She was busy trainning and going on competitions. There's even a whole week she isn't around because of it. That's the same reason she doesn't join the Thieves at first. She's busy. Simple as that. Just like Akechi joined you because of his goals, she couldn't join you because of her goals.
Her first ranks and her "slumps". - Depression does this to a person, you can be happy one time and suddenly a tiny obstacle creates this wave of "I'm not good enough I shouldn't be here I shouldn't be happy." Cognition or not, she had suffered the loss of her sister and wasn't getting results while trainning. Anything could put her down. I've been there myself and I still struggle with it sometimes.
The social link doesn't reset/You only know Kasumi, not Sumire/ her perky attitude didn't change/her awakening doesn't make sense - We know Sumire. Sure, she's pretending to be Kasumi, but deep down she's still Sumire. There's an event where she makes a bento for Joker, and it looks atrocious, but when he tastes it it's just curry. In her mind she should be a bad cook, but her food comes out alright anyway. Plus we get snippets about the plot twist, the phone never working, we never saw a picture of her sister. Also, we know her when she was depressed for being her sister's shadow (cutscene with the car accident) but we don't know how she usually acted. We know, thanks to her trainer, that she was quieter and more graceful than Kasumi. Doesn't mean she wasn't perky at the time, and she has as much talent as her twin. In her eyes, Kasumi was better because she won all the time, but Sumire got just as much trainning as her. And Shujin, when Kasumi was alive, wanted BOTH of them enrolled with special status. Self doubt and depression made her underperform, even before losing her sister. Knowing this, her awakening DOES make sense, specially when you consider what her persona was saying. Ok we have Sumire/Kasumi, her sister just died and you're carrying the dream for both of you. You get enrolled with special status, all students are talking about you (we see scenes about the gossip right at the start of the game), the school is expecting great results and in your mind you're "the best of the best". But come competition after competition, you can't perform well. The students that praised you now badmouth you, and even after a third place the higher ups aren't satisfied. No wonder she would almost snap at the palace, SPECIALLY after seeing her sister dying AGAIN (remember, she doesn't know about cognitions yet so it was just like seeing her die again). Her persona says "You strive towards splendor... you know the risk... well if these were the shoes that you chose." You know the risk = she's a fake, and deep down she knows it (self doubt, depression); the shoes that you chose = continue pretending to be Kasumi. On her TRUE awakening, her persona even says "such tenacity, it seem to fit you better than ever before. The glass slippers are a sign of glory." Right at the start of this exploration, Sumire was still faltering due to her self sabotage. But now, NOW she's ready to fully commit and accept who she is. The glory of being herself and being proud of it.
Why did she dance at the school festival. - she's a famous athlete. Students love famous people. She was called because she was recognized.
Why did her father show up? - well we DID help choosing his glasses. jokes aside, it's to foreshadow even further about Sumire's true identity. He says her name, but it gets cut off. We only hear "... re" something like that. Also, two reasons. One, Maruki was making this series of "perfect and happy coincidences" between the characters, so much so that even them commented on it. Her father showing up is also one of those happy coincidences. Two, this man lost one of his children in a tragic accident. I wonder how come he didn't show up MORE. Picking her up from school, from trainning. He should be a little paranoid about her safety.
Why Cinderella/Cendrillon? - Cinderella suffered out of jealousy, ok. Sumire suffered out of jealousy, for her SISTER. Plus, remember, Cinderella had one key aspect: she wished to go to the ball, have the best night ever, maybe meet the prince but she wanted to get out of the shadows. Sumire's biggest wish is to get out of Kasumi's shadow and "go to the ball" so to speak. In this case, to be acknowledged, just as Cinderella was. From ashes to glass. I do think it's quite fitting for her, other fairy tales like Ugly Duckling and Little Mermaid could fit as well.
She suddenly accepted her sister's death. - she got a reality check, had her persona beaten, got in a moody and depressive state. She DID run away from the fact for almost a year. She rralized she had to stop running at some point.
We could've known other patients he helped. - I think the game implies he only helped Rumi and Sumire. He was busy working on his research, and then counseling at Shujin. If he had a chance, he should have helped other students there. Plus the game explicity says that he changed reality because WE the Phantom Thieves asked for it.
She loves Joker no matter what you do. - so does Haru. And Ann.
She stalks you into the palace. - she's worried about her friends after you implied you had an important job. I'd tag along as well just to be sure. And Lavenza went to the nurse's office as the butterfly. She probably saw it as well, IT'S A GLOWING BLUE BUTTERFLY.
Why everyone talks about how much she eats? - it's a trope, probably like Goku or Luffy. It's a japanese game after all.
She doesn't have a reason to join! - She does. It is "stop Maruki and his weird reality". When she joined Joker and Akechi, neither of them knew what was going on as well. They were the only ones with their memories and that's it. They joined up to solve the mystery. She joined up go help. After that, to stop Maruki.
She has Marinette vibes - ... I don't see it? And I watched a lot of Ladybug, got a bit out of hand yikes. But Marinette is a lackluster character I'll give you that.
AAAAAAND I guess that's it? Wow I wrote a lot. If you read it, thank you so much. Once again I'm not attacking you or anything, I'm giving you my honest opinion.
But I'm gonna say: I hated her goodbye scene in Royal. Maruki left you at the station (Billy Kametz c.c), the gang had an awesome farewell and she just... stumbles across you? What was THAT Atlus?
Those are some details, and I appreciate you being polite about them.
I might need to reinstate my thoughts, points, and counters regarding yours:
I can’t say I’ve totally understood the way the game portrays Sumire’s mental struggles… I mean I’ve also hit a really hard time in my life in high school where I was alone in going through these struggles for some time. And the way people go through their own mental hardships can be different for everyone. But Sumire never emphasizes what her “slump” is, or explains the cause for it. She says it like she doesn’t know the reason, and makes it sound like it’s only a simple slump throughout the first five confidant rankings. She’s been pretending to be Kasumi for some time so maybe it was a mind block from tying her back to who she really was? It’s really her confidence that’s shaky, and Joker repeats the same method of saying a phrase to encourage her, and she goes right back to being perky again without pause. Her slump is always dealt with in the same way the first half of her confidant. She seems to just take it as face value like a compliment.
Even with people feeling awkward about her acting and calling herself Kasumi, it’s not a valid enough reason for avoiding her like the plague. Shujin students I get, but her other fellow gymnasts would be the closest thing to interacting with her and having at least a simple conversation, like Makoto with the student council members. She probably wouldn’t have had to lean on him all the time if her parents or her.. teammates? club members? or maybe a single person talked to her and weren’t so set off about her identity issue. It’d be something like Ann and Shiho, Makoto and Eiko, and Mishima with the guys, or just an acquaintance. I don’t know.
I do find your point of her social link interesting over what she could’ve been feeling herself. But it all feels up for interpretation from before she came to Shujin and when she was Kasumi. Joker did what he always does, helping someone because he was somehow out of the loop about her actual identity when none of the thieves, from Shujin, talk about it. I mean I know it’s for the reveal but this detail was something so simple that could easily be solved. Maybe it’s because they thought Joker was calling her Kasumi for her own sake but he could’ve been informed about it, it feels like a loophole.
I had forgotten about her phone. And it doesn’t really makes sense as to why it’s broken only that Sumire’s or Kasumi’s was damaged and she either kept her phone or taken Kasumi’s. The explanation for that is weird. Did she really need Kasumi’s phone to be her sister?
The thieves love her after meeting her how many times outside the Metaverse without brief meetings like she had full conversations with them every time? Futaba and Mona are taken with her right off the bat because of her politeness for being the same age as Futaba with a different personality and interest for being a Persona-User and an athlete. She’s a Persona-User, that’s usually what catches other Persona-Users’ interest, especially the thieves. The most it feels like she interacts with them is in the Metaverse in Maruki’s Palace. Just because she respects them doesn’t mean they have something close to a max 10 rank up up of a powerful bond like the whole team sorta has. Respect can be different from willingly choosing to make close connections because one likes to have a bond with another. Respect can be broken down in many forms.
Her awakening shows no real form of rebellion for an oppressed society that has personally and wrongfully affected her. She has verbally stated that she does not care for people’s opinions and understands the consequences of losing her honour status as a result for ranking lower instead of first place. She did the best she could with what she was already doing and the outcome was what it was. I figured that time she saw her cognitive self was a sort of reminder of her she really was. Like a clue. Considering that her other self from the other world said that it’s her fault, the other self, felt strange and out of place because we don’t know the reason why. If it was just self discovery then that would fit. But she shares nothing that fits with the themes of Persona 5 as a Persona-User. Altus breaks those rules for her. There shouldn’t have been a point for her to have a Persona with such weak reasoning. Her second awakening still has nothing to do with rebellion. And to awaken again the second time with no changes? Hypocritical for the point of the Persona series. It would’ve made sense whether or not she had to even be a Persona-User in the place. Her growth, realization, and moving on from her past would’ve still been affective like the other confidants who reached a point in their lives where the change is known, yet didn’t need a Persona to showcase that. I feel caught in the middle about it.
Her being busy is one thing, but to be out of the story so much with only gaps in between from her appearances just doesn’t feel like a character that can connect the player so strongly as opposed to everyone else. Everyone has responsibilities. Haru has to work on her family company, Yusuke tries to find stability as an independent artist after Madarame, Makoto deals with the student council and doing well with her grades, Ryuji goes back to training as an athlete while working on recovering his leg, and Ann has to deal with the struggles of making it out as a model for her career. Akechi goes through crap with Shido as the Black Mask, being a detective, keeping appearances, and being a student. That’s kind of the point, her goals clash with why she doesn’t need to join the thieves outside of dealing with Maruki. Other than that, she’s got no stakes. She has a life for gymnastics that takes her on a more divided path from others. It’s a lazy excuse of writing to bother even including a character and deeming them important when they deliver no reason of significance to the viewer and backfire their involvement. Akechi doesn’t really count as his reasons and motives are intwined with the thieves’.
The whole school dance and she’s a famous athlete and all is one thing. But is she really the only well known athlete in the entire school for students to be talking about her all the time? It makes me curious about that. And if it’s a school dance, why aren’t any of the thieves who attend Shujin be there? I think I’ve forgotten as to why. But Atlus could’ve come up with any scenario and they chose a dance to bring the obvious ship of her and Joker.
I can really see other fairytale folklore characters that fit her, too, like what you’ve previously mentioned. Though none really fit P5’s themes of fighting for a cause for others and themselves. But I still get the vibe that while her jealousy is shared with Cinderella’s stepsisters, and she becomes someone else to be something than more than what she was, nothing changes about her after that. Her only freedom was through the prince, who took her away from her household and live a happy ending. And while her circumstances are understandable as to why she couldn’t achieve it alone, Cinderella seems like she doesn’t really change. And it’s someone else who does everything for her. To her stepfamily they could’ve perceived her differently, but Cinderella’s character doesn’t appear to change. It feels like a bit of a static character situation, maybe even more. I suppose it’s because she’s acting good in spite of her situation. But I can get behind why Cendrillon fitted her but also not, it just leaves the impression that her and her Persona stays the same. Cendrillon could at least look a little different to bring more evidence of growth instead of giving lines. I think that may be just me..?
The whole eating trope is ridiculous for having it be stated all the time. It feels overused, and to have it be stated every time she eats becomes an unnecessarily boring mention. Especially when the thieves have Ryuji, an athlete himself who they should know exercises a lot. It’s like they don’t know what being an athlete even means.
You can avoid a romance with Ann and Haru by choosing choices that aren’t actually responses to love confessions. Example: when Ann says she’s about to cry on Rank 9, you can comfort her platonically by saying she has the others. It’s the same with EVERY female confidant love interest. There’s an implication for a romance, but you can at least avoid it if you want to.
Your point with her father is something I can agree on. But does getting new glasses with her really deserve a confidant rank? And her tie with Maruki feels loose, and from the time she acted as Kasumi, it didn’t feel like her story expanded to how close of a connection she has to him. Maruki is just far more interesting.
We really didn’t get a chance to see how her student status affected her. But at the same it feels too similar to Makoto’s situation as well in a writing standpoint.
Sumire probably didn’t realize the process of losing her sister for almost a year. She did have her cognition be to probably think and act like Kasumi where their processing of grief is different. Perhaps she didn’t feel the impact of what Kasumi might’ve felt and if the roles were reversed and she wasn’t too heartbroken over herself because of her subconscious? She could’ve only just been processing her thoughts fresh as Sumire because she finally gets to truly be herself again. BUT, part of that just doesn’t sit right, because she said it herself that she knew deep down that her sister was dead (one of them had to be) and that pretending was wrong. That basically confirms that she is actually aware of what she has been doing this whole time. She really did want to be Kasumi. This is just my interpretation.
I did not mean about Maruki’s change in reality. I meant to wondering about the amount of time he has had since obtaining his Persona and what he’s done with his powers that had led up to the moment of his Palace.
She stalked Joker out of just sheer curiosity and not about minding his privacy that had nothing to do with her? Especially the important job that could’ve meant anything that was of no matter to her. Sure, it makes sense for her to care, but to just blindly follow and stayed in the Metaverse for who knows how long does explain much to me. I’m not sure if I’ve missed out an a detail or something. And what friends? She’s only behaved courteously with the thieves like what a professional relationship would be for a workplace. Nice but nothing deep behind it. And their relationship remains the same. The blue butterfly in the office is an iffy one. Other students were there and they didn’t see it. It’s like when some of the Velvet Room Attendants had gone through a veil of invisibility to the outside world accept their guests. Like the various locations of the Velvet Room in the real world and the Metaverse. Not even the thieves, or any team from P3/4 see the doors accept the guest. This could’ve went in a similar route. Like with Marie where she found support with all the members of the Investigation Team whereas Sumire only had that from Joker.
I had also meant something different as to why she had no reason to join the thieves’ cause. It’s obvious that she’d join to stop Maruki because she was personally affected by him and wanted to help. But as a writing standpoint, joining to simply help without having the shared standard goal of a group who strive for betterment from injustice, who personally experienced injustice and have it affect their lives deeply as motivation doesn’t work.
That’s what I mean for the most part when I inputted that Sumire gave the vibes of a similar lacklustre character who goes with seeking someone as their main person of attention. Marinette was the only character I could think of that gave even remotely a similarity. The two are portrayed as good characters despite their actions that leaves a lot of room for questioning why that even is.
your thoughts on sumire definitely aren't wrong, but i personally see her as "a bad person pretending to be good." the fanservice, x joker, and being shoehorned into the plot are basically all a given, considering basically all the girls get the first two, and she wasn't in vanilla so ofc she's gonna be shoehorned in royal.
as for sumire herself, her good-girl waifu act is just that: an act. she's meant to come off as a one dimensional waifu to hide her deeper, more toxic traits.
from the first cutscene where we see her true self, it's implied sumire was attempting suicide before kasumi saved her. and her reaction to this? to wish she was kasumi, to take kasumi's successes as her own. and when this doesn't work, she can't compare to kasumi's natural charm, sumire's perfect persona cracks.
and once maruki gains more power, to where he can even ressurect wakaba, okumura, and akechi, sumire still wishes to be kasumi. her desires don't change to bringing kasumi back like the other three. because sumire psychologically cannot stand to live as her inadequate, depressed, talentless self, she has to take kasumi's successes as her own. to her, there's no way "sumire" and "kasumi" can co-exist.
in this way, sumire is an extremely morbid character, disguised as a basic waifu. and the icing on the cake is one of her battle quotes: "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger."
For context, this a past comment regarding my character opinions post here that I finally decided to include here:
My Rants on Kasumi Yoshizawa + 1 & 2
Thanks for the reply, Anon. I mean, I don’t think Sumire was actually attempting suicide. She got overwhelmed with her frustrations and wanted to get away from the source of them, which is Kasumi, so she ran from her and didn’t look where she was even going. As nice as it is to get responses and feedback, I DO NOT want to relive getting the hate comments from this character’s cult for expressing my thoughts freely. Please be reasonable when you respond to posts and think before firing hate onto others. If you don’t like these posts I have then it’s fine to ignore and not care, it’s not important.
i also agree with your opinion. at first she's kinda cool, i liked the idea of her guilt and thus taking her identity due to the fact she feels that her sister should be the one who's alive. but watching her play out throughout the game was kinda.. meh? everything abt her feels so forced to me. like maruki was also a new character, but he felt more natural. it was pretty obvious that one of the reasons she was there was to be the waifu bait.
tldr: she was kinda cool at first, but was kinda disappointing. 5/10. could be executed better.
For context, this a past comment regarding my character opinions post here that I finally decided to include here:
My Rants on Kasumi Yoshizawa + 1 & 2
Thanks for the reply, Anon. As nice as it is to get responses and feedback, I DO NOT want to relive getting the hate comments from this character’s cult for expressing my thoughts freely. Please be reasonable when you respond to posts and think before firing hate onto others. If you don’t like these posts I have then it’s fine to ignore and not care, it’s not important.
Commission
Pantom Thief Violet with a suit inspired more in Cendrillon and less in Joker. Commission for flightofarobyn on twitter. Unmasked and masked version
Enjoy a mediocre recolouring of Violet’s outfit for… reasons… (from the Persona 5 artbook)
Violet!!!