Gos2 - Tumblr Posts
Where the heck is Satan in Good Omens S2?
And could we perhaps find evidence of him in the places where the furniture used to be?
For reference:
Hastur & Ligur, 1.1: "All Hail Satan." "All Hail Satan."
Crowley, 1.5: "I never asked to be a demon. I was just minding my own business one day and then… oh, lookie here, it's Lucifer and the guys."
Adam Young 1.6: "You're not my dad and you never were."
Satan, 1.6: "No, no, no!" (He promptly dissolves into black ash and vanishes. Immediately after, Aziraphale and Crowley look at their no-longer-flaming sword and tire iron as if not entirely sure why they're there.)
Crowley, 2.1: "Do you ever think, what's the point? ... Heaven, Hell, Demons, Angels?"
Crowley 2.2 (circa ~2000 BCE): "Satan and his diabolical ministers..."
Gabriel 2.3: "I remember when the morning stars sang together and all the angels of god shouted for joy.” (emphasis mine. Lucifer/Satan was the Morning Star. Why the heck is morning stars plural??)
... And I think there's some other S2 references to higher ups and "Our Lord" by Shax supposedly, but I'm too sleep-deprived to go combing through for them (I'd be much obliged if anyone else could grab any other exact quotes that mention Satan by name or seem to refer to him in Season 2.)
Let's first get the Doylist explanation for why Satan might not be around out of the way: Satan was the Big Bad of Season 1. He's been dispatched. Furthermore, he's played by the most likely very expensive Benedict Cumberbatch, so he's not likely to be back in a hurry if it at all can be avoided, and alluding to him at all might just create confusion with viewers who will then expect to see Satan.
(Below the cut: but what if there's more to it than that?)
But as others may have seen with the, "Metatron is actively editing the Book of Life in S2 and that's why things are weird," meta, there's quite a bit of speculation going around that something fucky is going on in S2.
However, while I agree that some points in S2 are certainly fucky I'm not convinced on all or even most of the supporting evidence. Most of the explanations have a Doylist counterpoint like "It's just bad writing," or "They just wanted to bring back some actors they enjoyed working with," or, "The film crew just made a mistake," or "They just forgot that bit of continuity." After all, half of the original writing duo is tragically no longer with us, so there's going to be some level of story drift regardless.
While in general I find the, "It's not that deep," explanation more plausible in most instances, I'd be a very poor disgruntled English Major indeed if I made sweeping claims that the wallpaper being blue is always a coincidence. It's muddier with TV because there's so many proverbial cooks in the kitchen and plenty of human error to go around, but I'd equally never claim that I think Good Omens S2 wasn't a labor of love by those who worked on it, and certainly there's evidence that care was taken in its production, so everything that's off being a mistake is also not a sweeping generalization I'd want to make either.
Which is my way of saying that I'm not convinced by the Metatron meta but I think some of the ideas there are on to something. I don't think it's plausible that a writer would in S3 reveal that in S2, the heretofore largely off-screen character of the Metatron was actively editing the story as we went with the heretofore only mentioned once, never seen, and immediately denounced as a joke Book of Life. BUT, there is some fucky stuff happening that I won't say was the result of some Genius Mastermind Writer deciding it was a good idea to actively write badly and provide stories with no payoff, but I will consider that some of the apparent continuity errors might not be so accidental as they seem, because this was a labor of love and at least on this count, I don't think that Neil was necessarily that careless. Or at least, I'm more inclined to look for clues in places where I can see logistical choices being made, rather than in more subjective claims like "This bad writing is meant to be Bad Writing and therefore a Clue." Because writing is hard even under the best of circumstances, especially in TV and having lost the aforementioned half of a beloved writing duo.
Moving on! Thing is, if we're to believe that there's some sort of mystery hidden in plain sight that was introduced in Season 2, then it did not pay off yet. This makes me a little suspicious of the overall claims that there was a hidden Season 2 mystery, because a good mystery really should pay off within the text, and expecting the reader to keep their unsatisfied suspicions in their heads for 3-4 years for a later satisfying conclusion is... optimistic at best and downright sloppy at worst.
Unless, the mystery spans the entire show. If the clues we're seeing are meant to pay off in S3, and we assume some level of competence, then more likely these are series spanning mysteries that will be satisfying when one is able to watch all three installments. And that means, if there is a mystery in S2, we should be checking back with Season 1 to look for the roots of it.
Which is what brings me to Satan.
What on Earth happened to Satan?
Is Satan still around?
Now, my theory would be much more satisfying to me, personally, if Satan's name was never spoken in S2 but alas, there is the Book of Job episode and I believe some other mentions by name, mostly by Shax? I'd love some backup on that. But I very deliberately don't count demons just saying things like, "Our lord" or making vague referrals to the powers that be to be references to Satan because if he's vanished, someone could have easily filled the power vacuum or there could be an empty throne room somewhere and everyone is just going through the motions (or he's become the Sandman Lucifer who fucked off to lie on a beach, which would be delightful. Anyway).
When Hastur and Ligure showed up in 1.1 they specifically said, "All Hail Satan," and Crowley was shown to be an outsider that he did not return this familiar call-and-response. Yet no one in Hell in S2 uses the All Hail Satan greeting. The references to Satan are few, even in Hell. There doesn't seem to be a lot of fear of Satan either, but more around other higher-ups like Beelzebub, Duke of Hell, who appears to be the highest ranking person we see in Hell?
And also interestingly, Crowley and Beelzebub are both lamenting how pointless all of this seems. Kind of interesting for two individuals who still despise Heaven too and, presumably, took Satan's side once long ago when they all Fell. The political fire has definitely gone out of them, which can be plausibly attributed to the Apocalypse failing and/or the two of them falling in love with their Angelic counterparts, but it's also just kind of weird that suddenly they both really don't see the point in any of these conflicts that once defined their existence.
Perhaps, and this is where I go out on a limb or ten, because Satan isn't around anymore?
Is there no longer a hand at the wheel in Hell, reminding everyone of their loathing of Heaven?
Is there no longer someone actively above Beelzebub, telling them what to do, such that they have the freedom to sneak away and pursue a romance with an archangel and not have their boss show up to stop them the way Gabriel's did?
Did Adam, when he made Satan not his father but more importantly that Satan never was his father, undo more than we realize?
Because that's the kind of Gaiman mystery that I can wholly believe is lurking in plain sight, because Satan was a big deal in S1, he was the Big Bad! It's in the text! The damned book series is built on the idea of a satirical Antichrist take on The Omen. All Hail Satan is one of the first spoken lines of dialogue in the book. Satan is kind of central to any story that's going to revolve around a battle between Heaven and Hell!
And yet... he's barely mentioned this season. And demons suddenly don't remember what they're fighting for. How odd.
Maggie and Nina's actresses also played nuns of the Satanic Chattering Order of St. Beryl. If there was no Antichrist, isn't it possible that neither of those women would have become Satanic nuns and might, instead, own a coffee shop and a record store somewhere?
If there was no Antichrist, isn't it possible that through some convoluted series of events, Madame Tracy, a witch, fell afoul of a demon or managed to become one herself?
Isn't it possible that once you open the door to the ripple effects of a Satan who either never existed (though the Fall still happened) or who only existed up until at least Job, but who was never Adam's father, that some other fucky things could happen too, like Aziraphale suddenly not being fond of alcohol? This continuity detail is much more of a stretch but it is such a plot point in the book that Aziraphale loves to drink and S1 that I do find that particular continuity break particularly vexing and it's one I side-eye the most in terms of "not sure if sloppiness or a Clue".
Anyway, point is:
Satan is curiously absent this season and technically, he was unmade or at least unmade as Adam's father last season. If something is fucking with the timeline, I think that on-screen, very visible event deserves some scrutiny over and beyond vaguely alluded to, off-screen fuckery by the Metatron with no in-text confirmation at all.
There's a lot of weird and bad writing in S2, sure, but some of the continuity breaks do, admittedly, feel too big to be simple oversights and I don't think it's entirely conspiratorial to think something more might be going on and if such a mystery is going to span multiple seasons, we should look back to S1 for the seeds.
It is possible that the unmaking of Satan has had ripple effects that explain some of these continuity changes and some of the cheeky casting of S1 actors in new roles as perhaps not entirely without in-story justification.
So in my mind, the question I have no answer to, but that might deserve some scrutiny going into Season 3 is:
How much did Satan never being Adam's father alter the timeline?
Edit: And here's one last spooky quote to consider: “I remember when the morning stars sang together and all the angels of god shouted for joy." - Gabriel's weird prophecy / quoting of God
Why is morning stars plural? Lucifer is very famously the Morning Star, you can't accidentally allude to morning stars in this context without referring to him, you just can't. So what the fuck is going on with this random non-Biblically sourced prophecies that alludes to Satan, but not by name, and makes the reference to the Morning Star plural??
I don't think they swapped bodies but the clock is definitely suspicious
Okay, so!!!! This post will have spoilers for the very end of Good Omens season 2, but I have a theory about that ending and I'll explain--
Something was bothering me, so I just went back and watched the ending like actually 30 times and I am fully 99.999999% certain they switched places
As they're pulling away after the kiss, they lock eyes and Aziraphale's expression shifts in the teeniest tiniest way, like a confirmation glance, before they shift back (and Michael Sheen is a master, so no chance it's not on purpose)
(Like really, go back and watch how Aziraphale's expression shifts literally *a second* before "I forgive you" cuz the change is SO minute, but entirely different emotionally.)
Aziraphale's hands -stay by his sides- after that, he doesn't clasp them at all, and it's particularly noticeable while he's walking to the elevator with Metatron.
The Bentley only ever plays other music for Aziraphale, but also Crowley drives away slowly, but ALSO Crowley's collar is fully turned down but you -can- see bits of the red underside in several scenes (particularly before he changes in heaven), but you don't see it -at all- after the kiss
And Aziraphale's face IS weird in the elevator like everyone says, BUT. after going back and watching both, I'm pretty darn sure that's cuz it's Michael Sheen's Crowley, it's the SAME as during Aziraphale's trial in season 1.
This also explains why they're on opposite sides than they're usually shown while the end credits roll.
WE DID IT GOOD OMENS FANDOM!!! 50k!!!!
(and we were at 44k only a week ago...)
double the reptiles, double the fun
Snek in a turtleneck :).
"You know what it's like when you don't know anything at all, and yet you're totally certain that everything would be better if you were just near one particular person."
A dinner with candles and wine after 'lift home'?👀❤
why does he look like a typical mom going to the gym ??
Neil Gaima’s like a psychic or something not only did he invent romantic literature but he also scanned all of tumblr and every social media platform to expose every deranged good omen’s addict (me) for misspelling ‘angel’ as ‘angle’. It’s like a call-out in the 4K ngl.
Hello :)
Would you happen to have any high res photos of Dagon from either season? I really like their character design and I can’t seem to find any good photos aside from the one on their wiki page.
(Also this doesn’t really fit the ask, but thank you for the kind words in response to people sharing their sadness over season 2. I was too nervous to send in an ask myself, but seeing your responses to others really helped me by extension ❤️)
Have a great day!
Hiya! :) Thank you <3. Hope these screenshot help <3
A video with new bts bits on MilkVFX's insta! ❤ :)
Me watching Furfur with 'normal' tongue: *SHOCKED* :D
The fact that Good Omens S2 was SO QUEER.
Not Just Maggie and Nina (and Lindsey)
Not just Aziraphale and Crowley
Not even just Gabriel and Beelzebub (who is NB)
But the magician shopkeeper and his trans/NB spouse who wore a fancy early 19th century dress to the ball.
Job's son who was flirting with Aziraphale (hilariously played by Ty Tennant giving Michael Sheen heart eyes in front of his dad lmao)
Even the tough macho man in Scotland that Aziraphale borrows the phone from - using it for "Grindr".
Plus of course Michael, Uriel, Muriel, and Dagon also all being non binary/gender queer characters.
With all this, there was no homophobia, no one batted an eyelid at any characters sexualities, sexuality wasn't even brought up, characters just are who they are and like who they like. Its a non issue in the GO universe.
AKA my favourite type of queer representation. The same type found in The Sandman (show not comic).
And whilst there was plenty of drama and not everyone gets a happy queer ending (YET) there was no queer trauma to be seen. No hate crimes, no "bury your gays", no stupid discussions about how HARD it is to be out of the closet in a bigoted world, because the GO world isn't bigoted.
Its SUCH a BREATH OF FRESH AIR.
I know we have similar experiences in The Sandman, In OFMD, and even in WWDITS, but each time a new show takes this very new approach towards queer representation I feel like I'm once again sinking into a comforting hug from someone I love, who loves me back.
Its just really fucking wonderful to see. I hope we keep seeing it more and more often.
why is he so far forward. is his ass even on the cushion atp
Good Omens Season 2 Spoilers
You know what? After a while of thinking, I dont want fix-it fics. Or Coffee Theory.
I want Aziraphale, as the new Head Archangel, to try to 'fix' heaven and convince Crowley to come up with him. I want him to realize how lonely it is up there but stubornly refuse to give up, because if he gives up then he admits that Crowley was right, and if Crowley was right then the entire fight was completely his fault. That he could have gone with Crowley and he didnt instead choose the side that has been playing him like a fool this entire time. He wants to prove himself right to affirm that this wasnt all for nothing. But most of all he wants to see Crowley just as happy as he was when they first met, when he was creating the stars. Not knowing that clinging to the memory of someone who disappeared so long ago blinded him to the fact that Crowley was content right where he was, with Aziraphale.
I want them to fight, I want to see the Messy Aftermath of their fights
And then Aziraphale can start healing, slowly but surely.
screaming crying throwing up literally combusting
LOOK HOW CLOSE THEY ARE!!!
They're not on opposite sides chairs anymore.
This just made my whole month
HOW IT STARTED
HOW IT’S GOING
*upon the airing of GO Season 2*
Audience: Didn’t you have a flaming actor?
Neil Gaiman: Uh…
A: You did! He was flaming like anything. What happened to him?
NG: Erm…
A: Lost him already have you?
NG: …replaced him with foxes
A: You what?
NG: I replaced him with fennec foxes!
It won't let me post this without a comment.
Happy Good Omens S2 Anniversary!! 🤍🖤
Aaa thank you! Happy season 2 anniversary!!! And happy anniversary of meeting Muriel (beyond the promo clip)!!
I finished reading DFAFM recently and it was so good 🖤🩶🤍 many kudos to you!!!
Hope you have a wonderful day 😇😈☕️🥂
On how much Aziraphale has learned since season one:
This is about character development. Inside of a story, everything that happens, happens for a reason. It's meant to tell you something, to teach you or the character of your story, something.
So if the story continues and your character repeats the same mistakes again you know that they are bound to be doomed this time, and even worse the audience is going to certainly lose respect for them, cause they have made the same mistake twice, they haven't learned anything, they're gonna do it again another time, they don't deserve a happy ending. (yes I'm talking about good omens here) So you don't do that to a character that matters to you and you respect even the tiniest bit.
A Lot of us here are thinking that this is what has happened to Aziraphale's character at the end of season two, that he has done it again, repeated the same mistake again and has left Crowley to join heaven and it's been because of reasons like wanting to change Crowley (not true, see this post), still believing in heaven's goodness (not true at all), not being on the same page with Crowley (I'm gonna talk about this one especially in this post) and such likes. But these are the things he should've known better about after 6000 years and all the events that we've learnt about especially throughout season two. (It seems to be rather the whole point doesn't it?)
But we all seem to rather believe that he's made that mistake again nonetheless. so what we're doing here is trying to find reasons to justify the mistake and somehow make the reason behind the wrong actions something relatable to ourselves so we can forgive him when the time comes.
In fact I don't believe that he's made a mistake. for Aziraphale's character to be redeemable, what he has done, must be the only option that he's had for saving them both. I don't care what kind of situation could have resulted in him making this decision, but the only reason, the one and only reason, must be his love for Crowley. Otherwise it'll prove that he hasn't learnt his lessons or doesn't love Crowley enough to make a compromise, and in both cases, he's not worthy of love. He won't earn his happy ending by being tortured and feeling sorry and doing the apology dance for Crowley if he's hurt Crowley out of selfishness and stupidity again
But I'm sure he'll earn his happy ending and I'm sure he's learnt his lessons and it's too late for him to have unlearned them all in a matter of a few seconds. (He is an idiot but he's not stupid) and it's mostly because of this, that I believe the reason why he made that decision, must be very different from what it appears to be on the surface.
Anyway, this post is about what Aziraphale has learned and how he's changed.
I have made a post about their moments of conflict from both season one and two, it's here and you can look it up. This is where you begin to understand how Aziraphale has changed since season one because these are his dialogues after he's had a fight with Crowley in the bandstand, season one:
"even if I did know where the antichrist was I wouldn't tell you we're on opposite sides"
"friends? We're not friends. We are an angel and a demon. We have nothing whatsoever in common. I don't even like you"
"there is no our side Crowley. Not anymore. It's over"
And then there's season two, when they disagree on what to do with Gabriel, Aziraphale is the one to point out that they both rely on the life they've built together
He's asking him to help him take care of Gabriel together and in response Crowley leaves
In the final scene he asks Crowley to come back to heaven
"work with me" "We can be together as Angels, Doing good" "I need you."
He says anything he can think of literally to convince him to stay with him and it doesn't work
We start from "we're not friends" and arrive at "work with me. we can be together"
Even if we don't know the reason why he's insisting on taking Crowley back to heaven with him, this is an Angel that has picked up the pace. That wants them to be an us. No matter what.
But these are only a few dialogues. I think there's more than that. I think the show in five and a half episodes (out of six) has tried its hardest to make the point quite clear about how Aziraphale feels about Crowley (or how strongly he feels those emotions). all through the way he looks at him and through his gestures and soft touches from time to time
I'm gonna make another post of those moments separately and I'm gonna link it to this when I do.
update: (here's the post. not just average moments of Aziraphale looking cute, it's something about the way he looks at him)
And I'd like to even compare those wishful glances to some of those from season one, but I can't, cause they are nonexistent in there.
how are you feeling?
+ all the other asks asking me how I am SPOILERS AHEAD
I am... fucking devastated. I absolutely loved it it until saw the ending but it is very difficult for me to like something with a bad ending so now so now it's very difficult for me to like S2. And honestly, Season 2 was the only thing in life I was looking forward to so... yeah, I'm pretty fucked up by it. I had entertained the possibility of somewhat open ending but I believed it will be a happy one like in S1, Neil said it will be soft, gentle, romantic so I truly believed in that happy ending.
And I like... logically I know that Neil has planned more, and that we might get Season 3 or he might finish it in a book. So brain sort of knows that this is not the ending and the ending is in the cottage, but does it help the heart? No, not at all. Yeah, fucking gutted, I cried a lot, tried to sleep, went for a long walk.
I will have to try to somehow love the bits before the S2 ending - and I truly to love them - it's just there is such a fucking big strangling shadow over my heart for it.
So... yeah... not feeling good.
Hope you are doing better. <3
